The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Hairy Hogs on March 23, 2011, 08:09:35 pm

Title: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Hairy Hogs on March 23, 2011, 08:09:35 pm
Hi there.

I am in no position to complain, but its clear that some others are.  My question to the audience is why is the weaner market so seemingly depressed at the moment?  Is it a location thing? A breed thing?  I know one couple who are seemingly stuck with a lovely litter of British Lops...........gorgeous piglets, but no-one seems to want them.

We are lucky in that we have sold all that we have to sell, and indeed interest is great in as yet un born litters, there do appear to be certain breeds 'sticking' elsewhere however?!
I wonder if those with bucket loads of experience might share their thoughts on this subject?  Is there a special, bang on the money time of year to sell them, and hence plan your breeding accordingly?  I guess Sara and I have been lucky with all of our breeds litters so far :pig:

At risk of chucking in a cheap advert, I have an impending litter of Gloucestershires any day now, and an Oxford in May. ;D ;D ;D

Regards
Jason

 
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: HappyHippy on March 23, 2011, 08:15:48 pm
IMHO it's all about the timing  ;) People are looking for pigs that will be ready for slaughter in November/December so ideally want to be picking them up sometime in the early summer May/June sort of time. It's still a wee bit early, most people will just be starting to think about it now that the weather is (hopefully) improving  8)
HTH
Karen x
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Squinky on March 23, 2011, 08:54:17 pm
And where are the Lops....?? Too far away for me I'd guess, but if you don't ask.....
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: TESS1963 on March 23, 2011, 09:02:02 pm
I have a herd of six Gloucester Old Spots girls and have had four litters this February/March - Mo producing seven this morning. I have sold all of my weaners from litters of 8, 5 and 10 - with only six boars to go. This time last year, the phone was ringing off the hook, so I am a little bit concerned that it does seem a little slow and am very concerned about feed prices, but hopefully things will pick-up and people will still be enthusiastic about rearing their own pork. Teresa
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: oaklandspigs on March 23, 2011, 09:11:03 pm
In our experience, some people fail to plan their marketing, and if people don't know what you have and that you are approachable, then you won't sell.

Free-ads - eg preloved, and indeed these forums are a great resource, but only touch a small no. of the local community.  The local ag store and the local freebe should be high on your list -  yes the ads cost, but is worth it.

For instance a litter of 8 piglets sold at £50 each will bring in £400, but some skimp and avoid spending £10 to sell them.

So to save money the advert says

"GOS weaners 0778 942657"

Now people on this forum will know that GOS is Gloucester Old Spot, that an old spot is a pig, that a weaner is a 6-8 week old piglet etc. etc. But someone who is less knowledable will have no idea, and lack of a price just makes them think that they might be conned. They have no idea where you are, who you are, and responses will only be from people who know all about pigs and are looking for a bargain.

"British Saddleback piglets ready w/e 4th April from local small farm, £50 – phone to visit and see - 01892 xxx xxxx any day after 6pm ”

This tells the buyer the breed (which they can look up on the internet!), that it is likely that they can collect on a weekend (many smallholders work, so are keen on evening or weekend collections), the “local” and “small” give the feeling that they will not be pressured, and the “phone to visit and see” tells them that they can come and see immediately. The time tells callers when they can expect a response rather than an answerphone (always annoys responders to an advert), and the “any day” helps to encourage weekend calls which suit people who may not look at the small ads until Saturday. The price gives them confidence on what they will need to pay.

May cost a few pounds more, but which ad would you as a newbie respond to?

Add to that a really helpful attitude to callers, tidying up the place to make it look welcoming, presenting your pigs in a clean environment, and taking some time with new people to show them round and help, and you create people who will buy from you time after time, and recommend to friends.

Guarenteed succes - No!, but don't look after these aspects and you're more likley to get one time buyers only, and have to keep advertising your stock.

Finally on all fourms count the no. ads that fail to say where the sellers are !

Down south, our biggest trade is now!  but we regularly have and sell weaners all year round.


Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Helencus on March 23, 2011, 09:19:19 pm
It's no secret I've not sold any of my saddlebacks. I pm'd a breeder on RC who had berkshires she was in exactly the same position with 2 more litters on the way. I'm able to take all of mine to slaughter weight if I have to but don't want to tbh. It also means my OH is pretty adamant that breeding was a one time only thing and is expecting me to get rid of Boris :-(((
Never having done this before I have no experience to say why it's so slow and I've advertised everywhere Inc local ag supplier and I've paid for ads too. I say where I am bloodlines for those who are interested price etc. Only calls I've had have been for advice which I've given being as helpful as I possibly can. I get the thanks ever so I'll call in a week or two.. Maybe they will but It has definately made me think again about breeding though.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Fowgill Farm on March 24, 2011, 09:45:24 am
Would agree it has been slow this spring, normally the phone is ringing off the hinges and i have a waiting list for piglets from end March to Easter so much so i pass sales on to other people with litters. This year 2 enquiries so far. Have managed to sell 7 gilts from litter of 11 but it looks like i will have to take the 4 boars to pork myself. It is very worrying. Quite a few people who rented land off local farmers have lost it because the farmers want to put it into wheat or rape which has been going thro the roof pricewise at the moment. Its a better return than rent for them! I will hopefully have two litters due in July but lord knows what i'll do with them as they'll be tight to fatten in time for Xmas. The local mart might be my only option and i'll be lucky to get a couple of quid each for them! :(
Fingers crossed things pick up - Budget certainly didn't help!
Mandy :pig:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Hilarysmum on March 24, 2011, 10:04:30 am
Its the same here.  Between Feb and April 1 last year had 21 pigles born.  All were reserved or sold by 3rd April.  Had a waiting list for any more. 

This year first litter of 10 born 9 days ago.  Still have 3 to sell.  The sales include 1 buyer who paid upfront for this years weaners.

Next litter due April, am hoping things will pick up.  I think the huge rise in cost of pig food is to blame.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Greenerlife on March 24, 2011, 10:06:39 am
i am in the opposite camp.  Looking for weaners and there don't seem to be any around, and the people I have contacted have said they would get back to me and haven't!
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Fowgill Farm on March 24, 2011, 10:09:42 am
Whereabout are you Greenerlife?
Look on the GOS website (for sale section of forum) there are loads of weaners around the country available.
HTH
Mandy :pig:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: shetlandpaul on March 24, 2011, 11:44:00 am
we have a number of people with porkers and baconers for sale. i think that the slaughter house being closed for a few months has made some folks end up with very fat pigs. the cost of pig food has scared us off keeping anymore for now. we have also reduce the chuck flock for the same reason.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Liquidator on March 24, 2011, 12:28:36 pm
I'm in the Highlands and it's a similar situation up here. There seems to be a bit of interest from potentialy new pig keepers but when I tell them everything they'll need before they can keep pigs it usually puts them off and I never hear from them again. Also, it evident that people in general are not happy to pay a premium price for quality pork. I've been lucky to sell some whole and half pigs but not many pork cuts.

Does anyone have experience of selling pork on the web? If so, how do you package / deliver it?

 ;D
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Billy Rhomboid on March 24, 2011, 06:34:59 pm
I expect this will generate a lot of outraged comment but I suspect the prices many people expect for weaners may be part of the problem.
The notice boards of the agricultural merchants hereabouts always have standard GOS/saddleback or Tamworth/Berkshire cross weaners (etc etc) for £25-40. And yet I see similar or pure versions of the same breeds advertised on the net for £50 and sharply upwards.
If i were selecting breeding stock then the bloodlines and all that might be more of an issue but for fattening up for sausage and bacon I am not going to pay £65 for a weaner I can get for less than half that elsewhere.
If it were something very special - a Mangalitsa for example, I would expect to pay more - up to £85 perhaps, but i see people asking £150 for unregistered Mangalitsa boars and wonder who is paying these prices. I could have 6 Berks/Tamworth crosses for that money and as nice as the Manga-meat is, it is not worth 6 pigs of another breed.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: robert waddell on March 24, 2011, 07:28:15 pm
it will not generate an outraged comment from me
what you have written is the foundation of the current problem or a part of it
with current feed prices you work out the economics of pig keeping 4-6 kilos of nuts per day for a sow now from the bore poking her you have 3 months 3 weeks and 3 days till the piglets arrive say 10 then keep sow and piglets for another 8-10 wks by 10 wks old they will be consuming another 8-12 kilos per day excluding your time straw and vet fees if required o and include £40 for the boar poking her now anybody that is selling weaner's at £25 upwards is wanting rid of them also they may look like what ever breed they are described as  now if you research the case that the gos people were successfully in winning  it is only pedigree birth notified gos pigs that can be rightly called gos
all pigs are special not just mangolitsas
so you buy these bargains and help these poor breeders of dolly mixture pigs because once they get shot of there bargain basement deals and work out there losses they will not be breeding anymore
o and the unregistered manga boars are just that UNREGISTERED DOLLY MIXTURES yes there are a lot of people out there that are being conned and if you go on the gos site there is a thread on unregistered stock passed of as pedigree time it was f*****g well stopped :pig: :wave:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: supplies for smallholders on March 24, 2011, 07:40:59 pm
To give my perspective, at the Melton market a month or so ago, Saddleback weaners were going for £5.00 !

A lot of people are shedding pigs due to the ever increasing costs of feed.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Helencus on March 24, 2011, 08:57:15 pm
Hear hear Lillian. If my weaners don't sell well c'est la vie I'll have a lot of pork and maybe make some money from that or maybe not. Upshot is i won't give them away that just devalues them and what breeders who are trying to make a living from this are doing. I've researched the local market I'm not asking anything other than a reasonable price given mine are 12 weeks old but it's clear in my ad so we all know where we stand.
Anyone wanting cross breeds Or animals where folks can't afford to keep them can get them dead cheap from livestock markets and fair play that's up to them. I shallnt be selling mine at that price so yummy pork for me and loads of my friends  ;D
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Padge on March 25, 2011, 07:24:10 am
for me it seems to be location...................would like 3 gos or berkshire gilts without having to travel too far and can't get them :( Lincs is a bit off the beaten track tho
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Billy Rhomboid on March 25, 2011, 08:33:50 am
Well, to put a slightly different angle on it, the economics of pig keeping are just the same for people buying in weaners to fatten. Feed costs at 1.75kg a day for 7 - 10 months, vet bills, straw, transoprt, slaughter, butchery and cold storage for those who don't do that themselves, etc etc. The difference between paying £25 for an unregistered 'Dolly Mixture' weaner and £65+ for a registered one is a couple of months worth of feed. Is that extra cost going to be reflected in the taste of the meat at the end? If the meat is being sold on will the consumer pay extra for the animal having been registered?
Yes every pig is special, and that applies just as much to crosses and unregistered boars as to fancy show pigs. The reason there is never a shortage of weaners at lower prices than breeders' is that there are many people who breed for their own meat production and sell on surplus animals.
 
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: HappyHippy on March 25, 2011, 09:14:16 am
From my point of view as a breeder (and pork enthusiast) I can see both sides. There's probably not going to be much difference in taste between a pedigree and non-pedigree pig, providing they've both been raised outdoors in the same fashion and yes, sometimes the crossing can be beneficial to the finishing time/meat produced BUT by buying a pedigree weaner for pork people are helping to preserve and grow the number of rare breed pigs in the UK. Non-pedigree pigs don't count towards the breed numbers held by the BPA :-[ At a time when pig farming is on it's knees and the threat of losing even more of our native breeds is very real, buying a pedigree weaner is a good way of helping the continuation of rare breeds in the UK. If no-one buys them, the breeders will stop breeding them  :'( :'( :'(
In the grand scheme of things, a saving of £25 when you consider the costs involved in raising and slaughtering is nothing, it's less than an extra 50p per kilo of meat and if it helps keep these breeds going then it's worth every penny  ;)
Karen x
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Fowgill Farm on March 25, 2011, 09:30:21 am
Well said LW & HH.
What makes my blood boil is people will happily pay £450 for a pedigree labrador pup but won't pay £40 for a pedigree GOS piglet! I bloody well hate cheapskates who encourage the breeding of mongrel stock which doesn't help anyone - pig keepers or the breeds. I know economic circumstances are difficult this year and may be for some years to come so i think things are going to get worse and we'll see litters of piglets dumped on the open market, i have another two litters planned for later this year and i honestly don't think i'll be able to sell the weaners so what do i do not put my girls in pig and run the risk of them going barren or let them have litters and euthanase at birth!  >:( :( or dump them at the local mart to their fate. Already on the GOS website there are herds & part of herds for sale due to the downturn and i fear its only the beginning................. :'(
Mandy  :pig:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Billy Rhomboid on March 25, 2011, 10:25:13 am
My apologies if I have offended. I have clearly stumbled into the wrong forum. I had not realised this was exclusively for pedigree rare breeds. I realise that maintaining rare breeds is an important thing to do but it is not mandatory for every producer of charcuterie or meat to do so exclusively. To label anyone who buys cross-breeds either for price or preference as cheapskates or assuming they can't afford to keep them is intolerant and prejudiced. Having kept pedigree Berkshires, GOS and Saddlebacks and various crossbreeds, we now mainly rear Berkshire/Tamworth crosses because they produce the best carcasses for the products we make from them. We take them up to 12-14months before slaughter so £25 on their initial costs  is not that much of an issue for us, but, going back to the OP, I suspect the dip in the market recently has much more to do with the very small scale pig keeper and first-time keepers who, in better financial times, might be tempted to have a go at rearing a couple of pigs, but in leaner times are less tempted to embark on a new hobby. And to these would-be keepers, registered pedigree or local cross-breed or whatever pejorative term you choose, makes very little difference.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: chickenfeed on March 25, 2011, 11:20:55 am
don't apolgise billy every one has the right to air their point of view.

this time last year i was buying weaners for £25 from a local breeder this year he wanted £60 for the same age/weight weaner the feed price has rocketed the slaughter fees are still the same there is no point in me fattening them i cant pass the increase on as i would be competing with the same breeder that has just reduced his pork prices.

the guy i brought my last weaners from has had 20 sows slaughtered in the last 6 months due to being unable to sell the weaners and the cost of feed he is now selling his weaners at £25 - £40 each depending on age. the same guy is selling whole butchered pigs for £130 way to cheap imo but he says its the climate we are in.

i have seen the same thing in the 80's when my parents closed down the pig unit almost overnight ater years of 20ish pigs going every week to loosing more money than you could dream about.

Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: littlemisspiggy! on March 25, 2011, 11:27:50 am
hi let me introduce myself........CHEAPSKATE here! nice to meet you...

i have x breed pigs and god forbid....x breed dogs too

great pork,great pets  (pigs and dogs ;))

i love pure bred pigs but cannot afford to buy one....my weaners are for sale at £30-£50 and i still have 4 left to sell but there going slowly.......£25 i have to say these days is a HUGE amount of money to me,it feeds me and the hub for a week!just! :D

Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Fowgill Farm on March 25, 2011, 12:46:24 pm
You're right this forum is for ALL pig keepers and perhaps cheapskates was the wrong term (we all like a bargain afterall!)but as a pedigree pig keeper i want to see some return from all my efforts to preserve a breed and its standards. I also want to get rid of the rogues who purport to sell 'pure' stock when its anything but when they pass it off to unsuspecting buyers who then call me wanting help to get a pedigree for it! >:( ::) and i have to break the news to them that they've paid good money for something that will never be pedigree.
Nothing against cross breeds persay ...........plenty in our family! ;) ;D
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: HappyHippy on March 25, 2011, 03:12:18 pm

i love pure bred pigs but cannot afford to buy one....my weaners are for sale at £30-£50
I'm a cheapskate too  ;D But not when it comes to my animals ;) ;D :love: :pig: :love: Just for the record I'm currently crossing Berkshires and KK's so there you go  :P ;) ;D
There's nothing wrong with breeding and selling cross bred pigs - each to their own, I have no axe to grind with anyone - you've got to do what suits you best. But MY point of view is that if I'm going to breed pigs I might as well do a little bit to help conserve rare breeds. Little miss piggy (I'm NOT having a go at you :-*) but you say you can't afford to buy pure bred pigs  ??? The last pedigree pigs I bought (as registered breeding stock) were £65 each, admittedly they were weaners so you've got 6 months of feeding before you can breed from them, but it's not that much more than buying a cross breed of the same age.
But lets not have another big barney about it - we all do things differently and that's just as it should be.
Karen  :wave:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: czechmate on March 25, 2011, 09:20:04 pm
Simple fact, surely, is the price of feed. Comercial pig farmers cant make it work at present prices and are killing sows like they are going out of fasion. This time last year I was bid £72/t for Barley. Just sold tyhe last load for £180. To get a 7 week old weaner, at current feed prices, for feed alone costs £30.
So, all I would say is, untill the price of pork goes up, or the price of feed goes down, those who look at keeping pigs with their money specs on will see it just doesnt stack up at the moment. Having said that, its been this way a thousand times before and will be plenty of times again.
Just spare a thought for the comercial pig producer loosing £20 per pig going to slaughter at the moment.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: chickenfeed on March 25, 2011, 09:38:41 pm
our biggest local pig farmer has decided enough is enough and has stopped breeding the sows have gone and the few fatners he has left will be finished then he is hanging up his hat.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: ballingall on March 25, 2011, 10:17:23 pm
This thread has made interesting reading, it is worrying that trade is quiet. Also worrying, is the fact that we took two last year's lambs to the abbatoir a couple of weeks ago, and the girl there was saying they have never been as quiet and that they were finding times really hard. If we lose local abbatoirs, then people looking to raise a few weaners will be even less likely to want to buy some.

Regarding buying weaners, I think it depends entirely on the circumstances. I bought ours from Lillian, pure bred Tamworths. I wasn't fussed about them being pure bred, and to be honest, I would have been happy with cheaper crosses as well. BUT- for me, it just seemed ridiculous to go up to 40 miles away to get crosses, when I could get pure breeds from just 2 miles away (and know there was help and advice on hand if we needed it). Not only that, but I was able to get them at exactly the time of year I wanted them (after all our goat shows had finished so it didn't affect out movements from shows).



Beth
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: HappyHippy on March 25, 2011, 10:22:11 pm
I really feel for the commercial guys - they're so dictated to by the people that they supply because of the demand for cheap meat. :'( :'( :'(
If farmers in the UK can't supply it (because of the strict government welfare standards imposed) then our, ever so 'supportive'  ::) government will just import even cheaper stuff from abroad, where nobody knows what the welfare standards are - but hey, doesn't matter to them as long as UK farmers are doing it right they can have the moral highground >:(
But I think every breeder (large or small scale) is feeling the pinch and only the most dedicated will come through it. For me it's just not all about the money - preservation of rare bloodlines is far more important in the big picture.
I don't know if anyone watched the Great food revival on BBC the other night BBC iPlayer - Great British Food Revival: Gregg Wallace on Potatoes and Clarissa Dickson Wright on Pork (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00zn6jq/) (it's the last 30 minutes that are relevant ;)) If it hadn't been for 3 dedicated families continuing to breed from British Lop's - there wouldn't be ANY in the UK  :-\ With more and more people worried about the quality of meat (and the lives of the animals) it's hopefully a situation that's going to improve again shortly - before any more breeds fall by the wayside.
Here's hoping anyway........................
Karen x
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: binghamd on March 25, 2011, 10:23:15 pm
With the current bad economic situation and the high price of feed its probable that people are deciding that they cannot afford that lovely home reared pork this year, they'll  have to do with the supermarket stuff.
Suspect its a bad decision though, the supermarkets will soon jack up the price of meat. Once that happens the buyers for weaners should come back. Hang in there.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: TESS1963 on March 25, 2011, 10:49:43 pm
I have six GOS breeding girls and a boar and have just had three litters in February 9, 10 and 5 respectively. I was really worried about selling the weaners, as the market seemed depressed, but to date, I have 4 boars and 3 gilts left and another month to go before they reach eight weeks at the middle/end of April - so keeping my fingers crossed that I will be able to sale all of them. I have increased the price of my weaners from last year - gilts £50, boars £45 and registered £60 and made several enquiries and researched the market before re-pricing them. You always - well I do, doubt what you have done, when the phone seems a little quiet, but after talking to a customer who wanted two gilts, she assured me that her main priority is to find a breeder with high welfare standards and then she was quite prepared to pay a reasonable amount for the weaners. She also said that if people were not prepared to support breeders by paying an adequate amount, then the breeder may not be around next year, when they want more weaners.

I always encourage any prospective purchaser to come and view my herd and beside advertising in the local feed merchants, DASH and Mole Valley Farmer magazine that a small investment in a good website has helped a great deal this year. Therefore, try and not lose heart and if you can weather the storm.

Teresa
Pennymoor Herd of Gloucester Old Spots



Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: littlemisspiggy! on March 26, 2011, 08:03:12 am
hi,happy hippy!

when i say i cannot afford a pure bred i did mean a grown pig ready for breeding,i very nearly bought a couple of middle white weaners last month to grow on as breeding sows but as others have said on here its the feed prices that are the killer these days so i cannot afford 8 months of feed before i get something back if you know what i mean...i was only having a laugh when i called myself a cheapskate because of the comment on a previous entry being a little harsh..lol.. ;D i spend a fortune on my pigs,dogs and ponies and we are the first to go without if they are need of anything.x.

im just so determined to keep rearing my own pork as i could never go back to supermarket yuk!! :D
i am also in agreement that it is very important to keep the rare breeds pure and numbers up but unfortunatly im just not in a position to do it myself at the moment....but! as soon as the day comes that i can it will be middle whites for me all the way! ;D :pig: ;D

i just hope this lul in the weaner market picks up soon as i refuse to sell my piglets too cheap as this will not help the situation overall,it will just encourage people to demand cheaper prices from all of us due to cheaper compatition!

Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: HappyHippy on March 26, 2011, 09:24:24 am
I agree Littlemisspiggy, selling weaners too cheaply (or in some cases I've seen people giving them away  :o) does absolutely nothing to help the market. Folks think, why should I pay £40 for a weaner when I can have one of those for a fiver :-\
I think, slowly, people's attitudes to cheaply produced food is changing and people are starting to appreciate the merits of traditional, slow grown meat.
Here's hoping for a few good summers and bountiful harvests worldwide, maybe, just maybe the feed prices will start to come back down.
Karen x
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Hairy Hogs on March 26, 2011, 09:49:15 am
What an interesting and evocative thread this turned out to be.  The programme was indeed brilliant!  Excellent news for those who can afford to breed the pigs, and even better for those who can afford the meat in turn!

Our only problem at the moment is catching the little buggers on the days of departure!! ;)

Now the agonising wait for our Oxford gilt to pop her litter out in early June, and our next litter of Gloucestershires in April and thats it for the moment all sold.

Regards all, and thanks for your comments.
Jason

www.hairyhogs.co.uk (http://www.hairyhogs.co.uk)
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: czechmate on March 26, 2011, 12:26:27 pm
I agree Littlemisspiggy, selling weaners too cheaply (or in some cases I've seen people giving them away  :o) does absolutely nothing to help the market. Folks think, why should I pay £40 for a weaner when I can have one of those for a fiver :-\
I think, slowly, people's attitudes to cheaply produced food is changing and people are starting to appreciate the merits of traditional, slow grown meat.
Here's hoping for a few good summers and bountiful harvests worldwide, maybe, just maybe the feed prices will start to come back down.
Karen x

Oh yippy, yes lets all hope for prices that cripple the cereal growers again :P
What I hope for is sensable prices in the shops :-\.  Be it Milk, Eggs, Meat, Veg...   Funny, people can always aford cigarets, flat screen tellies, hollidays, going to the pub - yet are always moaning about the trivial cost of food >:(
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: robert waddell on March 26, 2011, 01:19:19 pm
we are in a global economy there are different reasons for the high cost of cereals one being that investors with forward contracts tied the farmers into forward selling( result investors made money farmers did not get the benefit of the higher prices :wave:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Helencus on March 26, 2011, 01:34:00 pm
Well finally I've sold 4 gilts today for meat at what I don't feel is a bad price £45. Right so if I can sell 10 more I'm going to be very happy!
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: HappyHippy on March 26, 2011, 02:26:00 pm
I agree Littlemisspiggy, selling weaners too cheaply (or in some cases I've seen people giving them away  :o) does absolutely nothing to help the market. Folks think, why should I pay £40 for a weaner when I can have one of those for a fiver :-\
I think, slowly, people's attitudes to cheaply produced food is changing and people are starting to appreciate the merits of traditional, slow grown meat.
Here's hoping for a few good summers and bountiful harvests worldwide, maybe, just maybe the feed prices will start to come back down.
Karen x

Oh yippy, yes lets all hope for prices that cripple the cereal growers again :P
What I hope for is sensable prices in the shops :-\.  Be it Milk, Eggs, Meat, Veg...   Funny, people can always aford cigarets, flat screen tellies, hollidays, going to the pub - yet are always moaning about the trivial cost of food >:(

I just meant that if the weather improves and less cereal crops are lost then maybe the price for animal feed will come back down a wee bit because there will be more of it available :-[

Great news Helen - fingers crossed you manage to sell some more  ;)
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Mrs pig on April 04, 2011, 12:27:29 pm
weaners throughout the pig industry are slow to move this year due mainly to the cost of prodution but also because the finished pig price is low, which has a knock on effect.

~In the smallholder sector it may be slower than normal as the VAT increase has also taken spare cash - I have certainly spoken to smallholder allied businesses that have laid people off this spring due to a lack of interest in the smallholdding sector at present.

all is not lost and the feed prices may go down soon - however, spare a thought for the commercial guys who have 500 weaners to shift and feed not just one litter.     
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Liquidator on April 04, 2011, 01:04:21 pm
TESS1963
Like you, I encourage potential purchasers of weaners to visit and see the piglets prior to deciding whether to purchase. This year I've noticed that more people who say they are coming to visit / buy don't bother to turn up and some who ask to keep weaners an extra week or 2 then decide not to takethem. It's been a lot slower to sell weaners and it looks like I could be left with 8 from the last 2 litters. I like your website, really informative.

It would be good to see feed prices coming down a little and also the price of straw.  :pig:

Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Hilarysmum on April 04, 2011, 01:12:50 pm
Our only problem at the moment is catching the little buggers on the days of departure!! ;)
www.hairyhogs.co.uk (http://www.hairyhogs.co.uk)

After a few "interesting" experiences with Hilary when trying to catch piglets who then squeal, we invested in a heavy duty dog cage.  After removing the sow, I throw feed into the ark encouraging piglets inside.  We secure a pallet in front of the door, and one of us then passes the piglets out and into the cage.  Reduces the squealing and the intervention from Hilary.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: TESS1963 on April 04, 2011, 08:56:19 pm
Gradually getting there with selling my weaners, but agree with worrying about people letting me down over collecting their weaners. Fingers cross to date, I have not yet had anybody who has done this. Saying that, I do have my doubts about two customers, but we will see how it goes. My husband runs his own engineering business and he says that I should insist on a deposit. To date, I have not gone down this road, but once somebody does let me down, I shall ask for a small deposit.

All the best

Teresa
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Eve on April 05, 2011, 09:47:34 am
Hi Tessa, do ask for a deposit, we always pay one (we're buyers).

Eve

Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: benkt on April 05, 2011, 10:12:37 am
I was asked for a deposit (as a buyer) for the first time this year and paid happily. People who want to buy registered/notified stock are probably happy to be more supportive of the breeders they are buying from - I know I am.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: JulieS on April 05, 2011, 10:24:22 am
I didn't used to ask for a deposit for weaners, but was really let down just before Christmas..........so learning from mistake I ask for a deposit now.   

Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Helencus on April 05, 2011, 11:36:11 am
I asked for a small deposit. Anyone quibbling paying one may have less than 100% commitment I believe.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Sylvia on April 05, 2011, 12:17:21 pm
I've read this with great interest. I didn't go to our local smallholders market last week, worked the night before and couldn't be bothered, had nothing to sell and don't really need anything.
My neighbour tells me that weaner pigs were being offered for £5 a piece and no takers!!
He thinks they were Old Spots.
Pigs, as I remember were always feast or famine and I dare say always will be :-\
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: violet on April 06, 2011, 10:05:23 am
I've read this thread with interest too.

Last year I sold a litter ( my first) ready mid-October no problem,  my next litter was ready mid-November & though I had alot of interest & ended up spending a small fortune on advertising. A combination of location, timing  & the weather were, I expect, the main reasons for no sale. So I have taken 9 weaners through the winter to fatten on for meat & tbh at this stage in our enterprise the cost has pretty much crippled us financially. We have changed our feed regime and now supplement our organic pig nuts ( I am so grateful that I decided not to get certified - organic that is  ;) )with boiled tatties ( £20 per tonne or 2!), bruised barley ( still cheaper than nuts!) and eggs ( that are too dirty to sell from our hens!). Difficult times mean making compromises & finding ways to get by.
Fortunately I should have no problem selling them on for meat ( which I also hope that I can trade with locally too) and will be able to recooperate the costs eventually. We feel that all we can do is to soldier on as we really believe in what we're doing and that things will balance out in the long run, we only have a very very small herd so we can change & adapt reasonibly easily.
I've been eating my bacon breakfast ( home-grown & made of course) while writing this. And guess what we're having for tea tonight? Yep sausages ;D My daughter is starting to despair that she'll never eat any meat other than pork again & is busy making arrangements to stay at friends houses......... ::)
Most of my current litter is booked, but I've another one arriving soon from a sow that I'm hoping to sell, as I've booked a gilt for later in the year so I can bring in a new bloodline - If I do, this may give me a bit of a weaner break.
Times are hard, but it's reassuring to know that we're not alone  :pig: :farmer: :wave:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Helencus on April 06, 2011, 10:53:43 am
You're not alone Violet. I've so far managed to sell 6 gilts from 20 piglets born in Jan. 2 are actually going tonight. I have 14 that I may have to take on to slaughter thankfully I can afford to feed them. I'm currently toying with loaning Boris out and not breeding my girls again until next year..I'm keen to carry on breeding but there really is only so much pork I can sell to friends and family or eat ourselves.
Let's all hope for a good crop this year and lower feed prices.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: TESS1963 on April 06, 2011, 09:36:11 pm
Hooray - I have just had my last three gilts booked from the three litters born beginning of March. I've now got to sale the seven boars and one gilt born end of March and am still waiting for the lady who booked my three gilts from my first litter to tell me when she is coming to collect and then I shall be very happy.

Although it is very slow going, what I have noticed from the small ads in the publications that I advertise in, is the lack of litters. There are only three adverts for pure breeds - two GOS and one Berkshire and two for cross-breeds. This time last year there were many and what I guess is that people got rid of their stock through the winter period when the feed prices started to rise. If that is the case, then surely if feed prices come down, the demand for weaners will be high and if there is a lack of weaners available, due to people selling their breeding stock, the people who have weathered the storm and kept their stock will benefit - she says with fingers crossed!!
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Greenerlife on April 06, 2011, 10:04:06 pm
Still haven't found any GOS weaners.  Getting bored calling and people not returning calls.  Will now try my last years contact and have more Berkshires.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: littlemisspiggy! on April 06, 2011, 10:27:41 pm
we've sold all but one piglet from 2 litters born end of jan..all gone apart from the 2 we are keeping and the little guy left to sell..if not he will be fattened also..they are x bred weaners and ive managed to stick with and get £40 each for them so am very happy with that! ;D

I always ask for a deposit of £10 per weaner from people coming before they are 8 weeks at least this secures the ones they want and i feel more secure that they will come back!!

we got our first pork back from the abb 2 weeks ago and sold some to family etc..but my chest freezer is heaving..lol.. ;D
we've had roast pork,sausages,pork in pasta,pork curry,pork pie,pork cobs,pork lasagne!!!!pork,pork,pork! ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: violet on April 07, 2011, 08:12:25 am
What a difference a day makes  :o

I nearly said earlier something about the rain & the mud and the cost to the land, but I do try to remain optimistic  :(
Well yesterday it rained & it rained. it varied from showers to torrential but it didn't stop. When I got over to the croft yesterday afternoon, it was flooded - well not all of it. It is bordered by a burn, which when the new road was put through about 50 years ago ( part of my croft is now on the otherside of the road), was diverted. So when it really rains the burn follows it's original route. When we had the land drained we had ponds dug out where the biggest dip was. But the burn was lapping at the edge of the oldest boys pen, the cockeral pen & poor Chester the boar - well at least his house was dry & he had a wee island of land. But when I arrived him & Apple were just stood there looking at the water. I'd seperated Apple and the water was lapping at the edge of her area too, not quite up to her sty. At this point after 5 months of challenging weather I think I could have cried. The last time the croft was that flooded must have been about 40 years ago.
Anyway I went down to see Apple & I noticed her underline was significantly more swollen than the day before so I gave it a squeeze - yep milk. Checked her sty - yep reed & heather nest ( despite the flood - bless her  ;D ). She doesn't show as obviously as my other sow, so I'd got to thinking that she'd had at least another 10 days, though target date was 8th April. My neighbour suggested that I invest in aqualungs  :D do you think CCAGS would cover that? :D
I had a couple planning to visit yesterday as they are buying a couple of weaners, they held off due to the weather, but they seem keen. Then I got a phone call from someone looking for 4 ! He's happy to take 2 from each litter. OMG 2 weaners booked before they were born - and no advertising  :o . So last night I watched ( and tried not to help!) Apple deliver 8 healthy piglets, sadly 1 stillborn but as I was there, I know there was nothing I could have done to change that.
I am just so much happier this morning. And it's stopped raining - it's very nearly sunny ;D
Now all I need to decide is what to do about autumnal litters  :-\
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: plt102 on April 07, 2011, 01:27:32 pm
Hi there - we bought our 4 large black x welsh weaner boars at 12 weeks for 50 quid each and the lady kindly delivered them for that price. I thought that was a bargain. They grew to between 70 and 92 kgs and we have made a little bit of money from them. I think 40 - 50 quid is a bargain for any animal, pedigree or not, considering how much pleasure you get from them. One thing is that ours did not eat too much of the bagged food and seemed to get a lot of nourishment from roots and stuff so that probably reduced the feed cost worry. Can't wait to get our next batch!
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Billy Rhomboid on April 09, 2011, 07:30:59 pm
Well, in the grand tradition of smallholding decisions, given my comments on how cheaply weaners are avaiable and everyone else's on how difficult it is to sell weaners, I bought a Tamworth sow the other day, in-pig.  :D
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: princesspiggy on April 09, 2011, 08:43:22 pm
and we just got 2 gos weaners today!  :love:    so gorgeous,  :love:  hopefully market will be better when they are likely to farrow nxt year.  :wave:
tammies have smaller litters tho? 8 is less daunting than 13 i think!  ;D  still waiting for dorothys... :wave:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Hatty on April 09, 2011, 09:01:47 pm

May cost a few pounds more, but which ad would you as a newbie respond to?



most defiantly the second as a newbie i have found it quite intimidating answering adverts with no price as I don't know what is expensive and what's not I've been offered weaners at any where from £40 to £75 all unregistered but not all the same breed but all similar types i.e. lop eared
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: HappyHippy on April 09, 2011, 09:12:54 pm
and we just got 2 gos weaners today!  :love:    so gorgeous,  :love:  hopefully market will be better when they are likely to farrow nxt year.  :wave:
tammies have smaller litters tho? 8 is less daunting than 13 i think!  ;D  still waiting for dorothys... :wave:
And I'm going to pick up 2 OSB's tomorrow  ;D Always feel a bit cheated if I don't get a couple of new arrivals in the spring  ::) ;)
I LOVE Mothers Day, Valentines Day and Christmas now - perfect excuse for piggies ;)
Though I'll have to think of something new for my birthday, think I've got enough breeding stock to keep me going for the foreseeable  ;) ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: robert waddell on April 09, 2011, 10:01:15 pm
what about a hampshire to cover them all :o :P :wave: :pig:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: chickenfeed on April 10, 2011, 07:33:05 am
we have just had our first hampshire's killed quiet impressed with the kill out ratio.

trouble is we cant find a breeder local to buy more in  ::)
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: skidley on April 10, 2011, 12:35:34 pm
tammies have smaller litters tho? 8 is less daunting than 13 i think!  ;D  still waiting for dorothys... :wave:

One of my tamworth gilts farrowed 12 in feb! She reared 11. Luckily had a buyer who had booked 6 before they were born and now is taking 8. The other 3 all meet the breed standard so will be registered. Had another litter of 5, 3 of which are booked so not too bad so far one more gilt to farrow next month. Not yet decided when to put them all back in pig.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Greenerlife on April 10, 2011, 09:02:21 pm
Think (fingers crossed) that I have finally found some weaners!  Woo hoo!

Strangely enough they are a bit older than 8 weeks and the breeder hadn't found any buyers!  I will zoom down tomorrow all being well!  At last!
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: TheCaptain on May 21, 2011, 10:21:35 am
Just to add to this - put my four in the Blackmore Vale yesterday, had a lady ring up wanting six.  She asked the price, we said £50 her reply was 'ooo, I wasn't looking to pay that much.'  Rock and a hard place, as everyone says don't lower your price, but if everyone else is selling for £35 per weaner it's really difficult.  Anyway, had another lady ring and she has come and wants all four and will pay £50.   We've had other enquiries and all were happy to pay the £50.  There is hope for us breeders out there!!!

It seems that this other lady wants nearly half a litter to raise for herself without paying a decent price for them or having the overheads of keeping sows.  I need to ring her back and tell her they're gone.  I'm looking forward to that.

:)
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Hilarysmum on May 21, 2011, 05:59:35 pm
The purchase price of a piglet is an infinitesimal amount of the costs of producing a good pork chop, or of bringing a sow to the pont of producing piglets.  Anyone not prepared to pay a fair price for their piglets is not appreciating the costs and work involved.  Perhaps they should rethink. 
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: TheCaptain on May 21, 2011, 07:12:40 pm
On ringing her back, she replied that couldn't possibly afford that anyway!  It does make me wonder what the heck she was going to raise them on?  Thin air?
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Daisys Mum on May 21, 2011, 08:02:43 pm

I am paying £60 this year for Oxford sandy and black weaners, and they were very hard to find in this area.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: SallyintNorth on May 22, 2011, 01:29:47 am
I paid £50 for OSB weaners last year from a breeder in Co. Durham.  They were unregistered but I could have paid £40 extra to have them registered.  (And I would have done but failed to tell her in time and she'd just mixed three litters up, so too late to register and I didn't want to wait any longer to get my piggies.)

I haven't found anywhere nearer to get OSBs; I was happy to travel to get nice pigs from a nice breeder.

I absolutely agree that anyone who thinks it's not worth £50 for weaners from a breeder is undervaluing the production of a healthy weaner, especially if it's free range and rare breed.  They cost so much to get from 8 weeks to plate that it seems very short-sighted to not want to start with good healthy stock.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Hilarysmum on May 22, 2011, 08:58:53 am
Here in France the land of the throw out white elevage piglet for 20/30 euros (cost twice as much to feed it on the special diet it requires ... ) and the mythical 2 euros a kilo pork  its not easy to find good buyers who will look after the animal to its end.  Although I have been very lucky with some good, understanding customers who come back year on year.  Thank heavens.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Hairy Hogs on May 22, 2011, 06:58:03 pm
WOW, I cant believe this old post is still around!

Guess it hit the mark.. Our update, sold all 5 litters, some to 'forumites', Hi Eve!  Could have sold them all again, got £65 each for them, unregistered, anyone who cant be bothered to pay that price in my opinion is miles off the mark of what these things cost to rear in time, and money!

I had calls from a few peeps, who I offered to fetch piglets from a friends farm, and even they despite not finding any locally refused to pay more than £45!!!  Needless to say they didnt get piglets from us!

The fact is, they cost heaps of TIME, and a not insignificant amount of money, NEVER forget that when you are selling weaners, NEVER be afraid of your price...................NEVER forget that when you are a buyer, rob them at your peril...............you may just find next year they are even harder to find!

Regards
Jas

www.hairyhogs.co.uk (http://www.hairyhogs.co.uk)

P.S. Thanks to all thos who are now hopefully enjoying our young stock, who may look in on this thread.  ENJOY!
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Hilarysmum on May 23, 2011, 09:50:07 am
Bearing in mind the cost of feeding, slaughter and butchering circa £15.00 more for a piglet is peanuts. 
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Daisys Mum on May 23, 2011, 02:15:54 pm
Bearing in mind the cost of feeding, slaughter and butchering circa £15.00 more for a piglet is peanuts. 

I quite agree it is worth it to know that you are buying well bred and cared for weaners, as far as I am concerned I am only paying £5 more for each half pig and that is not a lot.  :love: :pig: :love:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: loosey on May 23, 2011, 03:21:52 pm
I've only just caught up on this post.

I've sold my excess weaners at £25 each this year! We know our pigs won't make us money but we're happy to get a bit back from the ones we don't want to keep.

I'd like to think that they have been well looked after and they have, this week, been wormed. They are crosses so are not registered.

I've been to see where they will all be going and am happy with the set ups that the new owners have, so they will be off next week providing they are all okay after I take them away from Daisy tomorrow  :)
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Fowgill Farm on May 24, 2011, 12:42:18 pm
Fingers crossed i will have a litter of pedigree GOS to sell at the end of September but the way the projected cost of next winters feed & straw are going i already think i'm going to struggle with shifting them and struggle to get a good price for them. Think we're in for more hard times ahead..........
Mandy  :pig:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Helencus on May 25, 2011, 06:46:46 am
I've decided not to breed mine again until the end of the year so we get the next litters ready late April 2012. Poor old Boris won't spend time with the ladies for months. It'd probably make more sense for me to try and sell him but I hate to part with him.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Fowgill Farm on May 25, 2011, 09:38:20 am
Likewise Helen, i'm aiming to have weaners next year ready for Easter as this is when people tend to think about taking them on. I think there's going to be some lonely boars for a few months poor lads!! :(
Rufis is on his own at the moment as i've no lady friends coming forward for him and as i have another young boar coming on it loks like his days could be numbered :( :'(
Mandy  :pig:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: TESS1963 on May 25, 2011, 04:40:17 pm
Hi - I have had five litters this year and have managed to sell all of them. The only concession, was selling a batch of five boars to a gentleman for less than what I would normally sell them for. I now only have one litter of four left, which I will advertise nearer them being eight weeks old, as I am finding that people are ringing and wanting piglets right away.

I have put three of my girls back into pig, keeping fingers crossed I am hopeful that they will sale and have decided not to put the other three into pig until later on in the year. I was really worried at the beginning of the year, but the demand for pigs was steady and hopefully it will continue.

I have just bought another batch of sow nuts - £305 tonne!!!! It is a good job, I love my pigs and look on them as a hobby and not a business!
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Fowgill Farm on May 26, 2011, 09:25:48 am
Tess
You have been very lucky, normally at this time of year the phone literally hangs off the hook with enquiries for piglets, this year think i've had 2 since Xmas and both of those were tyre kickers! ::)
Also last year my boar only had 7wks without a lady friend all year, this year he's had 2 ladies to visit in six months, people just don't seem to be breeding and recently i know of a litter of saddlebacks that someone couldn't sell so they put them in the lcoal mart, they made £5 each which doesn't even cover their rearing!
The litter we had in January, thank god there were a lot of gilts as managed to sell those and have kept the 4 boars to fatten myself. I find it all very worrying.
Mandy  :pig:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Eve on May 26, 2011, 10:15:18 am
What's a "tyre kicker"?
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Hilarysmum on May 26, 2011, 10:31:28 am
Exactly what I was going to ask - is it a time waster?
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Fowgill Farm on May 26, 2011, 10:39:40 am
yes - a time waster, one of them arranged to come and see the piglets 3 times and then never turned up at the appointed time and rang with some pathetic excuse as to why! ::)
Sometimes i think i'm my own worst enemy though because people come with very rosy tinted views on pig keeping and i'm afraid i wake them up to the harsh realities of it. Some of them literally think they can chuck them in a field toss in a few scraps every day or so and let them get on with it. ::) but saying that i have some regular weaner buyers who are just brilliant and really care for their pigs perhaps too much, many tears at butcher time.
Feel very down in the dumps about it all at present. :(
A lot of my customers are public sector workers or retired and although i haven't put my prices up in three years, other areas of their lives are proving costly and nobody feels secure in their jobs. Its becoming a vicious circle.
Mandy  :pig:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Hilarysmum on May 27, 2011, 08:46:03 am
Mandy you may be your own worst enemy, but you are your pigs' best friend, not letting them go to the wrong homes. 

Its very hard at present, and sometimes it seems as if the light at the end of the tunnel is a man with a torch and another sack load of problems, and as for darkest hour before the dawn, well its been a very long night.

It will get better despite my gloom, hard as it is hang on in there.   These things go in cycles.  Quality breeders of quality pigs, who care are not that abundant.  Cant afford to lose any.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Fowgill Farm on May 27, 2011, 09:31:21 am
Hm wise words as ever, thanks.
Funny this morning was leaning over the gate into field watching Delia chase the heifers away from her patch of yummy grass, and i thought "Old lady you have the best life of any pig i know" and thats when you realise its all worthwhile, that your animals are content and really all is well in their world and thats what counts. :)
Mandy  :pig:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Hilarysmum on May 27, 2011, 10:23:59 am
Exactly  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Fowgill Farm on June 01, 2011, 09:25:43 am
Just in addition to this, i have never seen so many herds for sale as there at present both on marketplace and on GOS website. They were talking on the news this morning about economic recovery but it certainly not true in the pig world, a pig producer sent a letter to the Daily Mail in Monday's paper imploring the public to buy British high welfare pork. The downturn in pigs seems to be continuing................
mandy  :pig:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: southwestpoultry on June 04, 2011, 12:01:55 am
I have been reading this post with great interest and would like to comment, We have been poultry breeders for nearly two years and had fancied some pigs for quite a while too.
A couple of months back after doing quite a bit of research we decided to buy a pair of Oxford Sandy and Black Gilts to bring on to breed from and then fatten up the piglets for meat after that.
We wanted to find a breeder who could offer as much support and help as any new pig keeper needs and thankfully we did.
We were asked to pay a deposit for the two of them which we were more than happy to do as this shows a bond of trust between the new owners and the breeder who is selling their wares so to speak.

My partner and I agreed that supporting a rare breed is important as it keeps the breed active, we also understand that there are quite a few nasty apples out there, but when you do you homework you can find the right person to deal with and they in turn know that their animals will be well looked after, which is really important I feel.
We will be paying £60.00 each for the Gilts which we felt was a good price, they are being registered and we are also joining the BPA to ensure we are doing the right thing for ourselves and the breed.

My partner and I maybe quite rare feeling like this as new pig people - but I feel that is what needs to happen to ensure the stability of some of the rare breeds.

Thanks for reading and it would be nice to see what comments my reply brings.

Warmest Regards
Robert Dodge.

South West Poultry.
www.southwest-poultry.com (http://www.southwest-poultry.com)
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Castle Farm on June 05, 2011, 01:35:48 pm
Livestock in general has taken a hit from tighter times financially.

Horses and ponies are really suffering, but breeders are still churning them out without a care. Sec A colts are being given away around here.

There are thousands of poultry keepers all over the country hatching chicks and a fair majority of those are total rubbish, but they still hatch them hoping to get money back on chick/grower sales.

Alpacas and Llamas are different, as they are pyramid sellers and I think that the base of that pile has gone out as far as it can.

Pigs are pigs if your looking to put one in the freezer. Pedigree or X bred people will look for a healthy weaner at a good price, unless they want the cred of telling people they own a pedigree breed. Personnally I just get decent size weaners at a price I concider to be fair.

Hereford Market weaners are from £8 upwards. Coloured slightly more.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Dundonald hens on June 05, 2011, 10:17:43 pm
I have read this post with great intrested ! and yip you guessed it im a penny pincher as well and would love to know where you can get these cheap pigs !!!! the cheapest i can get within a reasonable drive from me ( 50 miles) is £50 so if anyone anywhere near kilmarnock has 2 piglets cheap please let me knw because a saving of £25 a pig is a huge amount !!
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Eve on June 05, 2011, 11:54:05 pm
I'm appalled by the last post. If saving £50 is a "huge amount", can you afford to have pigs in the first place? What if you need to pay a vet, will you be a penny pincher then, too??

Breeders need to cover their costs, too, even if they're hobbyists. I'm not advocating paying over the odds, but the whole system has to be sustainable, which means there's a minimum cost involved - and that's not 5 or 8 quid a weaner, or even £25!
  
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Womble on June 06, 2011, 12:27:32 am

I suppose all these things are cyclical, but it's puzzling me to try and work out whether small scale pig breeding / rearing would be more or less so than large scale pig farming. I know that pork futures are actually traded on the stock exchange (as "Lean Hogs"), but I've been unable to find a historical chart of the price, which might have helped shed some light on the situation. It'd also be interesting to see what degree of correlation there is between the price of grain and the price of pork. However, I suspect that whilst relevant, this isn't the reason anybody on TAS went into pig breeding, and hardly helps shift weaners!!

Alpacas and Llamas are different, as they are pyramid sellers and I think that the base of that pile has gone out as far as it can.

That's another interesting one. The back of this month's 'Smallholder' magazine has 5 columns of small ads for alpacas and llamas, which I found very surprising given that pigs only merit 3.5 columns, poultry 4, and sheep 1.5!  I wonder if the market has gotten a bit overheated? After all, they're just  grumpy long-necked sheep aren't they? {ducks for cover  ;)}
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: HappyHippy on June 06, 2011, 09:17:00 am
Can I tell you why I started breeding pedigree pigs ?
I'd raised a few batches of weaners for the freezer - some bought from local breeders then, when I was a bit braver and knew what to look for, from our local mart. (I think the cheapest I bought were £35 each)
But as I learned more about pigs and became involved with TAS, the RBST and other breed clubs/organisations I realised how at risk many of the traditional breeds are - being a typical "I want to save the world !" type wummin, I made the decision to breed from pedigree stock. My reasoning for this is (to me) quite simple - non-pedigree pigs don't count towards breed numbers held by the BPA, so unless I'm breeding pedigree I'm doing nothing to help preserve these breeds. Pigs cost the same to keep and process whether they're ped. or not, a small difference in cost at the start should make very little difference in the overall cost per kilo. Plus, by having a pedigree weaner, you can sell it as Tamworth/GOS etc etc etc without breaking any rules relating to marketing  ;) My costs to produce piglets would be the same whether I bred pedigree or not  ??? They still eat the same, need the same land and housing, medical treatment etc etc etc The only difference is in the extra money for BPA and BKKPS membership, but that works out at less than £2.50 a piglet. So for people to be happiliy selling piglets at £25 a time I would question whether all the things are in place to ensure that the pigs are healthy and well cared for - because I certainly couldn't afford to sell them for that  :-\ 2 litters at £25 a piglet barely covers the cost of the sow's feed for a year - how on earth would the breeder be paying for worming, vaccinating, bedding etc etc etc
I have read this post with great intrested ! and yip you guessed it im a penny pincher as well and would love to know where you can get these cheap pigs !!!! the cheapest i can get within a reasonable drive from me ( 50 miles) is £50 so if anyone anywhere near kilmarnock has 2 piglets cheap please let me knw because a saving of £25 a pig is a huge amount !!

Cheap pigs ? or GOOD pigs ?
As they say Dundonald, you pays your money, you takes your chance  ;) I've heard of a lot of people buying 2 or 3 'cheap' pigs only to find they are sickly animals who end up either taking months extra to finish or who end up being destroyed. Where's the saving there ? If you're not prepared to find an extra £25 to buy a quality weaner would you be the kind of person who's prepared to pay £25 to the vet to treat an ill animal ? Please think about the 'big' picture  :wave:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: robert waddell on June 06, 2011, 09:38:15 am
i agree with everything that HH has said and at the end of there life        if you have a 100 kilo carcass the cost per kilo to buy a £5 special or a £65 pedigree weaner is either 5p or 65p  per kilo the biggest difference with your £5 special  YOU KNOW YOU HAVE SCREWED THAT BREEDER AND YOU ARE DANCING OF INTO THE SUNSET LIKE MORECOMBE AND WISE
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: southwestpoultry on June 06, 2011, 11:16:50 am
Can I tell you why I started breeding pedigree pigs ?
I'd raised a few batches of weaners for the freezer - some bought from local breeders then, when I was a bit braver and knew what to look for, from our local mart. (I think the cheapest I bought were £35 each)
But as I learned more about pigs and became involved with TAS, the RBST and other breed clubs/organisations I realised how at risk many of the traditional breeds are - being a typical "I want to save the world !" type wummin, I made the decision to breed from pedigree stock. My reasoning for this is (to me) quite simple - non-pedigree pigs don't count towards breed numbers held by the BPA, so unless I'm breeding pedigree I'm doing nothing to help preserve these breeds. Pigs cost the same to keep and process whether they're ped. or not, a small difference in cost at the start should make very little difference in the overall cost per kilo. Plus, by having a pedigree weaner, you can sell it as Tamworth/GOS etc etc etc without breaking any rules relating to marketing  ;) My costs to produce piglets would be the same whether I bred pedigree or not  ??? They still eat the same, need the same land and housing, medical treatment etc etc etc The only difference is in the extra money for BPA and BKKPS membership, but that works out at less than £2.50 a piglet. So for people to be happiliy selling piglets at £25 a time I would question whether all the things are in place to ensure that the pigs are healthy and well cared for - because I certainly couldn't afford to sell them for that  :-\ 2 litters at £25 a piglet barely covers the cost of the sow's feed for a year - how on earth would the breeder be paying for worming, vaccinating, bedding etc etc etc
I have read this post with great intrested ! and yip you guessed it im a penny pincher as well and would love to know where you can get these cheap pigs !!!! the cheapest i can get within a reasonable drive from me ( 50 miles) is £50 so if anyone anywhere near kilmarnock has 2 piglets cheap please let me knw because a saving of £25 a pig is a huge amount !!

Cheap pigs ? or GOOD pigs ?
As they say Dundonald, you pays your money, you takes your chance  ;) I've heard of a lot of people buying 2 or 3 'cheap' pigs only to find they are sickly animals who end up either taking months extra to finish or who end up being destroyed. Where's the saving there ? If you're not prepared to find an extra £25 to buy a quality weaner would you be the kind of person who's prepared to pay £25 to the vet to treat an ill animal ? Please think about the 'big' picture  :wave:


Here Here Happy Hippy,

You have echoed Sarah and my thoughts exactly, being brand new pig breeders (Hopefully) we thought that getting pedigree rare breed weaners was important for the preservation of the breed, we chose Oxford Sandy and Blacks after many months of reading and studying into the best breeds for a new breeder, it was important to us to establish a solid relationship with their breeder so we could rely on them for advice in the future, also the breeder then knows that their animals are to be well looked after and cared for.

Around the South West £50 - £60 is the average cost of a good quality rare breed weaner and we would be a little wary paying much less than that for the reasons you have mentioned with regards to healthy animals.

I have already recommended our breeder to others thinking about getting into pigs as her experience and care is so important which we feel is so important for the longevity of them as pig owners and possibly breeders.

Robert & Sarah.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Dundonald hens on June 06, 2011, 10:33:25 pm
I'm appalled by the last post. If saving £50 is a "huge amount", can you afford to have pigs in the first place? What if you need to pay a vet, will you be a penny pincher then, too??

Breeders need to cover their costs, too, even if they're hobbyists. I'm not advocating paying over the odds, but the whole system has to be sustainable, which means there's a minimum cost involved - and that's not 5 or 8 quid a weaner, or even £25!
  

Eve dont make me laugh I have enough money to do as i like when i like but a saving of £50 on 2 pigs that are only going to the freezer is a lot of money in anyones book
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: gavo on June 06, 2011, 11:26:51 pm
I have been reading this thread but not posted until now Dundonald,£50 in the overall cost of raising pigs to slaughter is NOWT as they say over here. The phrase buyer beware springs to mind buy cheap buy twice this is true of most things livestock included. Good quality healthy livestock from reputable breeders comes at a price a fair one; pay for shite get shite .I know most people love a bargain but it is only a bargain if it it doesn't end up costing you far more than you ever expected in vet bills etc (as poor stock often does). If we don't buy good animals and keep pedigree breeders going we wont have the great variety of pigs with flavour etc (to just go in the freezer) 

To be honest if people keep driving down the prices of pigs, rare or commercial we wont have anyone breeding any as there'll be no profit in it,attitudes like the one you stated are what are killing the pig industry .
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: TheCaptain on June 07, 2011, 09:52:28 am
I have been reading this thread but not posted until now Dundonald,£50 in the overall cost of raising pigs to slaughter is NOWT as they say over here. The phrase buyer beware springs to mind buy cheap buy twice this is true of most things livestock included. Good quality healthy livestock from reputable breeders comes at a price a fair one; pay for shite get shite .I know most people love a bargain but it is only a bargain if it it doesn't end up costing you far more than you ever expected in vet bills etc (as poor stock often does). If we don't buy good animals and keep pedigree breeders going we wont have the great variety of pigs with flavour etc (to just go in the freezer) 

To be honest if people keep driving down the prices of pigs, rare or commercial we wont have anyone breeding any as there'll be no profit in it,attitudes like the one you stated are what are killing the pig industry .

Well said!!!
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: sabrina on June 07, 2011, 10:15:17 am
I do not Breed pigs but buy from people who do. I like to check out that the people I do buy from give their animals the best care they can as I consider this important. I also am more than willing to pay a decent price as rearing in animal is not cheap if the job is done right. Its not in my best interest to put these breeders out of business because at the end of the day if only a few are left breeding the price will be even higher.  :pig:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: SallyintNorth on June 07, 2011, 11:28:13 am
I like to check out that the people I do buy from give their animals the best care they can as I consider this important. I also am more than willing to pay a decent price as rearing in animal is not cheap if the job is done right. Its not in my best interest to put these breeders out of business because at the end of the day if only a few are left breeding the price will be even higher.  :pig:

Hear hear.  :applause: (Can we have an applause emoticon please Dan?)
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Eve on June 07, 2011, 11:28:41 am
Dundonald, if you have enough money then your attitude is even more of a disgrace.


Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Hatty on June 07, 2011, 02:26:22 pm
I've been reading this thread with interest over the last few weeks. We have been looking for weaners and because of the cost £75 - £95 we have been quoted for pedigree GOS, we have decided to wait a little while NOT that we think this is unfair simply that it is more than we expected and we need to save a little more first.

Everyone loves a bargain, but I think not understanding plays a part in things too especially for newbies like us, for example I had been looking for some goats in our local area that we could milk AN or GG I was introduced to a local fella who had GG x Pygmy's they are beautiful little things and I could of had the whole herd for £50 each 3 castrate kids (for the freezer) 5 nanny kids, & 2 nannies  I make that £500, but after getting good advice and speaking to other goat keepers I found that they were not such a bargain after all, although they were well looked after they had not been CAE tested (meaning I would have problems getting them mated) and he had lost a couple of nannies suddenly soon after kidding. I explained to the man that I didn't want to buy unless he would test them (which I offered to pay towards) he refused so I backed out.

Now I have bought 2 nannies from Wytsend for approximately the same plus the cost of transport from Devon to Yorkshire and I think its a bargain because I have peace of mind that they are healthy and not likely to get to 5 or 6 and just drop dead.

I'll wait for my weaners till I can afford to buy quality & peace of mind
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Greenerlife on June 10, 2011, 11:19:39 pm
We went to the south of England show today, and heard a story that shocked us of a market that sold a whole litter of 9 weaners for £20!!!  What is it with that kind of price?  So sad.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: SallyintNorth on June 10, 2011, 11:54:21 pm
We went to the south of England show today, and heard a story that shocked us of a market that sold a whole litter of 9 weaners for £20!!!  What is it with that kind of price?  So sad.

It's not possible that someone had misunderstood how the auction mart worked, and each weaner was £20?  Pens are usually sold at a price per head, it would be easy for an onlooker to think the whole pen was sold for that amount.  (I want to believe this was the case...)

I still get very confused at ewe-and-lamb sales; some marts sell at a 'price per life', so a ewe-and-single is twice the bid price, a ewe-and-twins three times, whereas other marts sell at a 'price per outfit' so that you pay what you are bidding for the ewe and her lambs come with her.  This is usually not explained... I bet some buyers get caught out somewhere every year.  And if there's 10 ewes with 20 lambs, that can make one heck of a difference!
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Padge on June 11, 2011, 10:30:43 am
I too have been watching this whole debate since its inception.

For me probably the most poignant post was that made by sabrina   regarding the welfare of the animals she looks to buy for herself.
We too apply that ethic to ourselves. After all the majority of us are choosing to do this because we want a better quality end product that has been cared for properly for the duration of its life.The words 'you reap what you sow'  spring to mind however idealistic that may seem.It is possible that many of us boarded this train through a desire for a liitle bit of idealism in this life.Much of what we do at whatever level is 'living the dream' as it were.

However we also have to be aware that there are also people out there that would charge top dollar for something simply because they can.I personally think that £95 for an osb weaner far too much and reading pretty much about costs involved of getting to weaner age a little top heavy(whilst ducking for cover i would also point out that we have bought and paid good money for our weaners and are well aware of the costs involved)

A certain comment on having enough money to 'do whatever i want'  i have to confess i read with a little disdain and would draw your attention to another members signature it goes somethong like  'beware the money men for they know the price of everything and the value of nothing'
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: gavo on June 11, 2011, 10:10:45 pm
Padge

Whilst you feel that £95 is too much for an OSB weaner, do you really know the cost incurred by the breeder? Where we live any  new breeding stock(new blood lines unrelated to what's here) needs to be imported from mainland Britain thus incurring considerable costs which can only be partially recovered by selling the off spring. Many breeders go to considerable lengths and costs to buy the best stock they possibly can to breed from.So sometimes the higher price is warranted and is not just because they can.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: ballingall on June 11, 2011, 11:23:33 pm
I can see where Dundonald is coming from- times are tough and most people do look for the best deal available. However, for most people, that's getting the special offer in the supermarket (or whatever equlivent you want to think of). No-one wants to pay over the odds for what they are purchasing.

However, I breed pedigree animals myself, and I know it costs to produce those animals, and I think a fair price should be paid for healthy good stock. From some posts though, when breeders are mentioning costs- what costs are you adding in? Why would you be trying to recoup the cost of feeding your sow all year? Are you saying that, but for producing the piglets to sell, you wouldn't have that pig, and therefore wouldn't have the cost of feeding it?

Because that seems excessive to me. I would want to have my animals anyway, whether or not I bred them. So their costs, I count as my fee for the pleasure I get from them. The cost of the offspring is only the fee's relating to producing them- so for example their vaccinations, a stud fee for example, the additional food needed for the mother in the pregnancy and when feeding the offspring until they can be sold, the cost of eartags, or notching, registration fee's etc.

I do think £95 for a meat weaner is too much. But- for a pedigree registered animal which may be showworthy or the possibility of breeding from them- then yes, I think that is a reasonable price.

Beth
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: gavo on June 11, 2011, 11:44:03 pm
Padge didn't state which this weaner was . The cost i was refering to were only those related to importing stock which adds several hundred pounds to the cost of the breeding aninimal, not the day to day upkeep of said animal, which anyone incurs whether they breed or not.

Living in N.I if people want unrelated stock they either have to import it themselves or buy stock from someone who has done (as in many breeds bloodlines are limited over here) but if people are not worried about in breeding or are only looking for fatteners they can easily find alternative stock at a price they are prepared to pay.It is afterall a question of choice.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Dundonald hens on June 11, 2011, 11:48:47 pm
Well said Beth !
The 2 pigs we had last year gave us hours of amusment watching them I had even got a big float from the fishing boats as a trade for a chicken so i could drill holes init and fill it wih food ( dare i say Bought food ) and then we would sit and laugh as they played withit trying to get the food out.
They also would run after the horses then the horses would turn and chase them and so on and so  as if they were playing tig with each other.
Its not all about cheap meat or growing veg and stuff for them its like all the other animals we have its about the enjoyment and the quality time spent with them and the family oh and of course some good yummy dinners !!!!
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: ballingall on June 11, 2011, 11:55:06 pm
Hi gavo,

It wasn't your comment I meant- I actually consider bringing in (for example) a new boar for new blood lines to be the same equivilent as a stud fee. Though obviously with a boar it would split out over several litters (hopefully).

And, I would expect people buying weaners in NI are going to be aware that costs may be higher. I have sent goats to both Southern Ireland and NI before, and I know it is NOT easy.

No- its more the fact that I don't think people should be expecting their piglets to pay for their sow's food for the full year.


Beth



Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: gavo on June 12, 2011, 12:07:19 am
I most definately agree with you if you have pigs you have to expect costs,but as you say they more than pay for their keep in enjoyment and as stress relievers ;nothing better after a hard day at work than to go down the field and give the pigs a good scratch and have a chat with them.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Padge on June 12, 2011, 09:12:54 am
gavo.....i did say whilst ducking for cover

The osb weaners in question were not registered and we were not looking to breed. The lady in question quite openly boasted that due to demand for hobby farmers wanting to keep pigs she had a waiting list and could pretty much command whatever price she liked. We opted to go back tou our original breeder and had saddlebacks.
I follow and read with interest a blog from a guy calling himself stonehead. He's a crofter in Scotland. He runs a very raw account of his pig keeping experiences trials tribulations et al. I have often wished that when it came to buying our weaners we lived nearer. I have no objection whatsoever for paying good money for good quality stock we ourselves keep and breed sheep....for a sustainable way of life....all for very romantic notions....and we love it....and when it comes to the costs involved neither of us are fools....BUT we are all to much aware that there are some very unscrupulous people out there.....
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Tiva Diva on June 12, 2011, 09:42:53 am
I don't agree with the folks who feel we should be subsidising our pig-breeding. If any of you have been on Tony York's course at pig paradise he's quite vociferous on the subject. He wants breeders of good rare breed pigs to keep breeding - which they won't do if they're losing money on it. Of course we shouldn't be ripping buyers off - but we do expect to turn a (small) profit on our pig-keeping, through the sale of pork and of piglets. We are not wealthy enough to breed and keep pig at a loss - and if we were, we shouldn't: selling too cheaply would drive other breeders out of business. (Though if we factored in our time, even at minimum wage, we would definitely be making a loss!)
To keep a large, good quality gene pool going we need plenty of rare breed pig breeders.
Also, some "cheap" pure bred weaners may be a bad bargain. We bought in a batch of OSBs at a low price - and they never did well, taking much longer (therefore costing more in feed) than our home bred ones to reach slaughter weight. One of them also had erisipylas!
Caveat emptor
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: gavo on June 12, 2011, 10:51:01 am
I don't think anyone minds a breeder making a profit(chance would be fine thing) but as Padge has stated this breeder was "making hay while the sun shines" which whilst not inherently wrong does gall a bit when they were so blatant about it they should be more subtle (and dare i say it they would probably get the price they wanted).We do need to remember that many are farming as a business even if it is on a small scale, as specialist niche markets are still presently vaguely profitable;we consider ourselves lucky if the farm "wipes its face" which it does sometimes.
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Padge on June 12, 2011, 11:18:34 am
 ;) ;).........sometimes ::)
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: HappyHippy on June 12, 2011, 11:49:44 am
I think it might have been me who made the comment about the cost of the sow's feed  :-[
I don't want to make huge profits from my pigs (as someone said 'chance would be a fine thing' ::) ;)) but I can't afford them not to cover their costs  :( If that were the case I wouldn't be able to breed and try to help keep some of these breeds going. That's my prime motivation for breeding, if it weren't for that I would buy weaners from someone else to raise for slaughter. As Tiva Diva says - if you can't cover your costs or make a small profit it's not good sense to continue breeding and what would we do then  ???
I'm not greedy but I'm not rich either and do need to at least break even - I only hope that people who see my pigs realise that they've had the very best care and start in life are prepared to pay the prices I sell for.
Karen x
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: robert waddell on June 12, 2011, 12:16:13 pm
OK some hard facts     discount the cost of your pigs either weaner's gilts or in pig gilts        and go straight to production 2 pigs having 2 litters per year and 1 boar to cover them you feed 4lbs of sow rolls to each pig increased to 8 lbs when lactating   with feed costing £300 per ton
that is 5 and a quarter tons of feed  rounded to £1600  20 piglets per year is £80 per weaner ,if you are lucky and get 40 weaner's it comes down to £40 each add on birth notification registration BPA MEMBERSHIP individual club membership collecting fruit and veg straw tags and wormer
YOU ARE BASICALLY PAYING SOMEBODY TO TAKE THEM OF YOU HANDS     you are all needing a reality check
go out and buy the £5 specials
are they such a bargain are they diseased what is there parentage   how long do you keep them to get a good return  will they put on 5-12 kilos of pork per week       my pigs can and the figures are open to scrutiny     22 weeks old and 90 kilos without forcing them :pig:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: gavo on June 12, 2011, 12:17:22 pm
Padge

Generally the farm makes a little money when we sell meat, the weaners cover their costs,but i live for the day when they both make money,i reckon if i live to about 110 i might just see it happen!
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: gavo on June 12, 2011, 12:25:52 pm
R obert

I have no qualms paying or charging quality prices for quality stock as i've said before pay for shite and that's what you get i've chatted to people who are quite happy to spend a fortune on clothes and shoes and vast sums of money on pets but they can't see further than the end of their nose when it comes to pig prices why oh why are pigs such an undervalued animal?
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: robert waddell on June 12, 2011, 12:39:06 pm
at stirling show yesterday the amount of people that viewed the hamtams and asked about the mythical micro pig  do they grow to that size       pointing to the sow       yes           what weight is she 260-300 kilos  no not wanting one now          bugger just not got the sales pitch polished of yet :farmer:
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: Padge on June 12, 2011, 07:35:17 pm
gavo
we may.......if we're lucky......break even in the nxt 18 months.....tho i have to say we are not running this as a business it is purely as hobbyists with a desire to produce something good for ourselves along the way. I think you misunderstand my tongue in cheek 'sometimes' quip   as we know all too well even at our level  it really is 'sometimes' ;) ;D
Title: Re: Depressed Market & Weaners
Post by: gavo on June 12, 2011, 09:22:35 pm
Padge i did "get it" just wanted to highlight that money isn't everything even though i'm meant to be running the farm as a business (it's a hobby that got out of hand) so now it tries to justify itself as workig.