[loosey]

I started off being very upset about this and but am just angry!

Last week one of my liveries bought her mum's dog (terribly overweight Rotty) to the yard with her along with her young dalmation.

My OH was walking our 3 and ususally takes her pup with him. Livery asked if she could let the rotty out. OH asked if it was ok with other dogs and she said yes.

I was in the house and heard a dog scream ... I thought one of them had just warned the pup off as he's very exuberant but it kept going. I went outside but it was so misty I couldn't work out what was going on ... it turns out the rotty had taken a dislike to my old Collie (who was lying by the gate having a rest) and had attacked him.

My livery had hold of it's collar but couldn't shift it. Toby (my old boy) was screaming his head off and the rotty would not let him go. The whgole ordeal went on for a good 2 or 3 minutes. Our Mastiff was told to get involved as he can normally just shove other dogs out the way and is normally the protector in the pack. He had no effect.

My OH then booted the rotty in the back leg (very hard), when he didn't let go he kicked him in the neck, that still didn't work, my OH kicked it in the head and he still didn't let go even with my livery pulling at him and shouting.

There was blood and fur flying everywhere and as a last resort my OH went to the truck and got his gun. Before it was loaded Flash (our mastiff) managed to get a mouthful of rotty testical and he yelped and let go.

If he hadn't we would have shot him. My livery put him straight back in the car and was obviously very apologetic/upset.

Toby went into shock. We took him to the vets - most of his wounds are just superficial but he has since got a couple of abcesses and the bill was pretty hefty. All our animals are insured so it's only the £75 excess to pay.

The rotty also ended up in the vets having been weeing blood but is fine now after having some tablets.

I spoke to the owner and she said she will not pay the bill and that hers was even more expensive than our. I told her that with all respect if her dog hadn't attacked mine without being provoked there would be no vets bills at all.

Since then they have both become very defensive.

She is now saying that she has spoken to a solicitor and wants to sue us as her daughter got a scratch on her arm and it could have been from our mastiff when he was trying to protect Toby.

Why do people have to try and make it so difficult for everyone?!  ... an apology would have surficed but she's being completely beligerant about it.

All that this will achieve is bad feeling and me giving her daughter notice on the yard ... it's such a pointless situation to put everybody in.

Received a message from her daughter -

"nothing like this has ever happened before. My mum don't want nothin more said about it. Our solicitor said I can sue because Flash bit me and he's a dangerous dog and he might be aggressive towards children"

This is our aggressive dog who might be a threat to children




I sent one back (only because my signal is terrible at work ... I hate dealing in text messages) saying

"If your mum wants to speak with me E, ask her to call me. It's not fair to go through you and cause unnecessary bad feeling at the yard. We're not looking to take any action against anyone so there is no need for defensiveness. Let me know if you wish to take this any further as we will obviously need to contact our own solicitor"

I'm past being upset and am now absolutely fuming ... HOW DARE she not take responsibility for her own dogs behaviour and HOW DARE she imply that I, as a responsible owner on every level might be at fault.

I have spoken to my bosses wife who is a lawyer but have no intention of officially asking for further advice as I no this will be classed as a civil matter.

The cheeky cow is lucky I didn't shoot her dog there and then. I am appalled and disgusted at their unprovoked reaction.

I am opbviously very angry but is this clouding my judgement? Am I in the wrong? We had gievn up on them paying our vets bill and all of this has just about come out of the blue. It's tiring me out

[doganjo]

My take on it is this:  You have a witness that the Rottie attacked your old Collie unprovoked.  Problem is she is a hostile one due to her mother's insistence.  The only advice I can give you is to try to calm the situation down, make sure you write everything down in the order it happened but only what you actually saw, and ask your OH to do the same(do them separately, don't confer when writing it down - you have effectively done your bit on here), then put your own solicitor on alert just in case, giving him copies of the statements.  But don't advise the livery or her mother you are doing that in case it escalates the situation.  I was also going to suggest you get the livery girl to do it too but that might push her into involving their solicitor.  If anyone else saw what happened you c0oudl ask them for a statement, but just be careful not to push it further.

Good luck, and I hope your old boy recovers well, it must have been quite scary for him.  I take it your livery is not being asked to leave at this stage?  Try to keep calm and move on from the incident - dogs are unpredictable creatures, even the best natured ones can change - my young lad found his hormones and now I can't let my two boys together, but I hope I will in time, or I may have to sell the young lad on.

[loosey]

I haven't asked her to leave as yet. My OH is fuming and wants her gone but she's a good livery and at the risk of sounding totally out of order, this has escalated due to their way of communicating (straight away getting defensive and over complicating the matter).

I've explained to them that nobody ever had any intention of any form of action against them and that our reason for asking for the excess initially was because myself and everyone I know would be scambling around to help with the bill if the roles were reversed, but also that I understand that this is personal opinion and values and not what the law would necessarily see as the right thing.

Toby is getting there. He's a bit reluctant to leave the front yard but seems to be getting his confidence back gradually and healing up nicely!:)

[BlueDaisy]

I feel for you (and Toby). Some folk are absolute numpties.
I doubt if they have spoken to a solicitor, but are maybe just saying that to get out of their responsibilities.
As I understand it, dogs in public places should be kept under control, if the rottie was attacking other dogs and not responding to commands then it was out of control. And wouldn't she have to prove that Flash bit her?
Also, if you mention that you are insured so being sued won't make any difference to you, but if they lose (assuming they are uninsured) then they get everyones cost, and told to find new livery. It might put them off. (Though they may think they have found a golden goose)
Good luck.

[Fleecewife]

It's far more likely that the scratch on the hand was from the rottie.   I don't know anything about the legal situation, but dogs when there are 3 or more tend to act differently as their pack mentality and stresses take over.  At one time we were looking after our son's dogs so we had 6 mostly very large dogs here.  Fights happened and I eventually found that a bucket of cold water over the lot would stop the attacker in its tracks.  You cannot open a dogs mouth when it's attacking but the cold water does work.
My feeling is that, as a visitor to your land, the rottie owner was under an obligation to keep her dog under control and that you are not in the wrong.
What a horrible situation - I hope it gets resolved quickly

[faith0504]

I hope you get this situation sorted soon for your own sanity, keeping everything crossed you, your family and your dogs 

[Sandy]

I think the livery went into panic mode as they knew it was thier dog that started it, so in panic, adrenaline sets in and then agression, thats why they are taking it out on you and your dog. I know in the case of car accidents, people are told never to admit blame and I think they have got their view in first, it happens loads to someone who is not in the wrong at all. As Anne say's, just get some witnesses in case and lay low. I also would make it a policy to put a notice up that dogs are the owners respondibility, all of us who own dogs can never be certain of thier behaviour but a reasonable amount of respect for other peoples animals is also necessary on thier (thier dogs) property. One bad thing is, I hate the fact that the dog got booted, if some one had fetched a bucket of water it would have been better or made a load bang to shock the dog, booting him would make him more agressive (like it would me) Don't get me wrong, I do feel for you. I remember a similar thing happening in a friends pub, they then decided to ban all dogs unless on a lead and kept well under control. GOod luck!! its that stupid sueing culture !!!!!

[HappyHippy]

So basically her dog attacked yours and now she's threatening to sue you ?
Bleedin' idiot  What's wrong with accepting responsibility for her dog's actions and apologising & offering some cash towards the insurance excess ? That's what I would have done if it were me, but then again - I wouldn't take a new dog into that situation and leave them unattended. Some folks are just plain irresponsible 
Hope Toby's soon back to his old self 
Karen x

[robert waddell]

now reading this my first alarm ringing is the firearm bit and apprised the other party have not picked up on it the gun was it in a lockfast container was the vehicle locked and most important had your o/h taken the gun out he would have been in breach of his licence your livery yard is a public place STAND BACK THINK ABOUT IT
i dont like rotties and these fighting dogs collies are bad enough
now had it been me the grape would have been used  to good effect

[shrekfeet]

Lillan do not jump to conclusions regards gun law. It does not need to be in a locked cabinet.

There is a lesson to be learnt here and you must take heed of what happened. You need to formulate rules that are suitable for the environment. Why are people bringing their dogs to the stables and allowing them to wander around off lead? Lucky that it wasn't a person that was attacked or a dog that was killed by a kick from a horse. You are a stables, not a kennels. Learn from the experience, set some rules, brief your customers and post some signs and make sure this never happens again. Because if it does, and your costomer can demonstate that there have been incidents previously and you did not take appropriate action to prevent them happening again you will not have a leg to stand on if this comes to court.
She has no grounds to sue you, but any action would be costly on both parts. It is up to you if you ask for the excess to be paid and what action you take if they refuse. Personally, if they are not respopnsible enough to be appologetic and offer to settle the excess then I would not want them on my property. Use them to set an example to the rest of your customers about what behaviour is acceptible and what is not!

[robert waddell]

shrekfeet i am not jumping to conclusions just reading what is posted and commenting on that

[knightquest]

Two good posts from Shrekfeet and doganjo.
I would suggest that she can't prove it was your dog, it was more likely her own as it was full of adrenaline etc so she wouldn't have a leg to stand on. If people are injured by a dog, the Police should be called anyway so it's a non starter.
Get the info, kick 'em out if you want, then move on!

Hope Toby recovers soon and you get to calm down. It must be awful for you.

Ian

[Sylvia]

My God! A dog fight always makes me feel sick and shaky--how people can deliberately set dogs on each other beggars belief, but thats another story. I think you must insist that the Rottie's owner foots the whole bill, not just the excess. Your insurance premium will suffer through this I dare say.
I was always told that in a dog fight you need two people, one grabs the collar and the other the tail and LIFT. If that doesn't work then one keeps hold of the collar and twists the testicles of the one that has the grip, or in the case of a bitch the skin inside the hind leg, that will make them loose their grip and turn 'round, enough to grab the other dog out of harm's way. Easier said than done though in a panic. I hope your old boy recovers soon, it's always worse when it's an innocent that suffers.

[Sandy]

Sylvia  I read that like a French and Saunders sketch, I can just imajine grabbing hold of a ROtties (or any other dogs) testicles  Joking apart, it makes me feel sick too, I was always told the water thing but what should you do? thats if you dare not grab the testicles!!! Hows Toby?, hope he is getting better and I agree SYlvia, the Rottie should take the responsibility and foot the bill, after all, it was your land and your dog, what would she say if you went to her back garden and your dog set about the Rottie?? Not sure either about the legal stuff, hope some one clever on here can give some advise as you never know when you need it, BUT, with humans, If some one sets about me and I injure them, I would have to prove it was reasonable force to fight off the attacker and no more unreasonable, there has been many cases of victims being sued for hurting thier attacker, e.g, that farmer who went to prison for being robbed by some thugs that picked on him, I also had a college who was mugged by someone under 16, injured so pushed the lad away, he fell and hurt himselg (attacker that is) and my college was sued for injuring a minor and as a Youth Worker, major consequenses although the injury minor!!!!! SO, what to do?

[robert waddell]

many years ago somebody went into a glasgow scrappie and was bitten by there alsation.  he bent down and bit the dog and was done for cruelty