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Author Topic: water where water shouldn't be  (Read 5713 times)

ellied

  • Joined Sep 2010
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water where water shouldn't be
« on: February 13, 2011, 04:09:00 pm »
During the last lot of torrential rain I had water bubbling up from about half way down a sloping field and running into the neighbours' garden and garage on its way down to the road :o  I had to get a JCB contractor out to make a ditch to divert it across behind my field wall, after which it ran down inside that to the gate, out on to the road and into the ditch between my field and the road..

JCB came back and dug up the problem area during frost, found the end of a large clay type pipe but nowhere that it appeared to lead to - the water came up there and had come through the grass under pressure rather than underground.  He left it open as there was too much flow, but discovered where it could go back down through stones into the underground bit.  I thought it might be my neighbour's water supply but they said not - it also appears to head towards an old well in my field so I assumed that as destination..

Heavy rain keeps silting up the drop down area but I am now keeping my pinch bar up there and can clear it when needed so that is under control until the ground dries enough (and the water flow subsides enough) for the JCB man to investigate further.  At the moment the ground is all but liquid mud :( but the neighbour is safe and happy that I acted promptly :)

However, more heavy rain has led to a further bubbling up further down the slope.  While this is also flowing into the new ground ditch across the field to the wall, I don't want to stick the pinch bar in there as it's making the water flow faster by opening up the breakthrough through the grass ::)  Far too wet for JCB to come in but I'm really not sure what is going on that so much water is flowing compared to previous winters and that it is now breaking through the surface in two places - how many more if/when this is dug up ???

The field is about 6.5 acres in total and has 12 ponies up to their knees in mud at this area eating adlib off round bales of hay and straw as fast as I can put them in - further areas are soggy and/or have standing water at the edges and of course the run off behind the wall whenever it's raining.

The mystery is where the water used to flow from this pipe as there is no sign of broken pipes, just loose stone, mud and grass above it ::)  I was thinking of fitting an old bath into the opened up section to supplement troughs during winter freezes as the water appears constant even between rainy days..

The area used to be a railway line and station yard (neighbours live in the old station house which is 150+ years old) and as far as I know it isn't wetter than other years I've been here so I wonder if there is something changed up the top where there is a wee loch, but why would a pipe lead to nothing and then the water run through below the surface for 12-14' and drop back down into underground drainage of some kind (natural or manmade) only to bubble up another 10' further down the slope ???

I'm stumped - and already owe Mr JCB £190 before he even gets to the root of the problem so I want him to sort it all not just have it reappear again every 10' down the slope on a weekly or even monthly basis :(

The original bubbling was dug into - maybe I should have had more earth piled on top to keep the flow underground all the way to wherever it is going, the well is 40' away and slightly to the left as you look down, where their house is immediately below and slightly to the right hence it hitting their garden/garage not their kitchen thank goodness :o
Barleyfields Smallholding & Kirkcarrion Highland Ponies
https://www.facebook.com/kirkcarrionhighlands/
Ellie Douglas Therapist
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doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
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Re: water where water shouldn't be
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2011, 04:14:16 pm »
That sounds dreadful - I've been having arguments with water since November, so can understand your anxiety.  It seems to breed once it has escaped from whatever confines it.  ::) What is above you?  Are there houses?  Could it be a burst main up there?  ???
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

faith0504

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Cairngorms
  • take it easy and chill
    • blaemuir cottage
Re: water where water shouldn't be
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2011, 04:21:26 pm »
oh gosh i hope you get it sorted, good luck  :wave:

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: water where water shouldn't be
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2011, 04:53:07 pm »
with water there is two things 1you can not stop it  2 you can help it on its way
you are to be comended for stopping the water getting to your neighbour nobody else is stopping it comming into you
i have seen your initial problem before water pressure builds up to such an extent it escapes and takes the path of least resistance
the old Irish drainers when they came to a immovable stone sometimes piped up to it and carried on the other side or piped round it either way water flow is interupted it could also be a blockage  it is also not the first time a drainer has lost the pipe or blocked it with digging also guddling around in water you would never find it. the lose stone could be a soakaway you either let it run or pipe it away  there is only one way to sort it and that is correctly         you have to remember there has been a hell of a lot of rain has fallen and it has to go some where   you can get testing paper to test for clorine to eliminate public water supply
have you elliminated your own burst pipes or others
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 04:58:47 pm by lillian waddell »

ellied

  • Joined Sep 2010
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Re: water where water shouldn't be
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2011, 12:15:08 pm »
Hi, it's farmland above me, no houses but a wee loch supposedly at the top tho I've never seen it, except on a map.

There is consultation about a windfarm up there and it crossed my mind that someone might be trying to drain the loch but there has been so much rainfall after the thaw that it probably is just natural draining down the hill and I and my neighbours are along the roadside at the bottom ::)  Their supply is private but they don't know where from - mine is mains as are all my burst pipes, which are also along the bottom of the fields not up where the problems are.

The land is almost liquid at the moment so there is no point going in with a JCB again yet as it would only churn up more areas and potentially create more leakages where the top layer is disturbed, but he'll come back when it is drier or there is a good hard frost and less running water to obscure his investigation.  I reckon that'll be August ::)

I am left with overgrazed flooding liquid sloping land and neighbours who are ok for now but no doubt waiting for me to "sort things" and there's nothing I can physically do myself that won't make it worse than I already have by sticking a pinch bar in the new bit and making it run more rather than less ::)

The bit about the irish drainers sounds like it may be right - there was railway along the bottom of the slope so I'm guessing the drains drop quite low after this section and into the well feed but there are no plans showing it or my neighbour's supply line - they are convinced theirs comes from another direction but it makes more sense to me if this is actually what feeds their house and the well 20' from it that was the old station master's cottage where my house is on the yard and the fields are partly the old lines (again below this leaking section) ::)
Barleyfields Smallholding & Kirkcarrion Highland Ponies
https://www.facebook.com/kirkcarrionhighlands/
Ellie Douglas Therapist
https://www.facebook.com/Ellie-Douglas-Therapist-124792904635278/

Norfolk Newby

  • Joined Aug 2009
  • West Norfolk, UK
Re: water where water shouldn't be
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2011, 04:41:43 pm »
Sounds like a horrid problem. I don't know where you are but from your comments, Scotland?

You could use Google Earth to get an good aerial photo of your immediate area which would show your field and the loch. This would give you an idea of the distances and therefore the likelihood of the loch escaping through your field.

Could you divert the water in the pipe as it enters your field (presumably in the line higher up the slope) so that it diverts to one side of the field? A small ditch running down the boundary would let the water escape without turning the field into mud.

Have you spoken to the local water company? They might be interested in checking the quality of the water and its source (the loch, a spring, someone's mains water supply). This would be at their cost as the water is not yours and it might be theirs.

In England there would be an environmental officer on the local council who might be interested if it is from someone's sewage system (health risk) but I don't know how it works in Scotland.

Are their any ditches lower down into which the water could be channelled? This would be better for the local community even if it didn't help you very much. Someone on the local council might be willing to pay some or all of the bill.

Just a few thoughts but I hope you solve your problem.
Novice - growing fruit, trees and weeds

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
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Re: water where water shouldn't be
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2011, 05:24:01 pm »
Have you spoken to Scottish Water or to SEPA?  I think they would be interested.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

lazybee

  • Joined Mar 2010
Re: water where water shouldn't be
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2011, 05:44:56 pm »
This sounds like a nightmare. I have a similar thing but on a smaller scale. In my cellar I have a spring fed well. To maintain the level so the cellar doesn't flood there's a pipe that goes out under my house into my neighbours field. now and again the end of the pipe in his field silts up and the cellar floods. I have to go over there and push drain rods up the pipe to clear it. In the winter he has a boggy patch in his field, In the driest years he has a nice green patch.
I wonder if your problem is an overflow from the loch. The clay pipe could have broken under ground.The rest of the pipe possibly continues under ground.

ellied

  • Joined Sep 2010
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Re: water where water shouldn't be
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2011, 08:42:13 pm »
Definitely not mains or sewer system up there, it is clear agricultural land all the way up to the top of the hill, no housing except along the road at the bottom level with my house and the neighbours.

I hadn't thought to contact SEPA or Scottish Water as the mains is along the road and my neighbours aren't on it but I am.  They don't have records of their water supply but no doubt would be straight over if it had dried up or started running mud ::)

There is a run off ditch along one section of the field but that goes near another neighbour whose house has subsidence and they wouldn't want any more diverted to that bit ;) 

This excess water is running down my field, into an emergency ditch the JCB dug, along my field wall at the bottom, where it splits - some goes on through my field and down a gully into the ditch outside the field beside the road.  The rest is running out the gate onto the road, along that for about 10' and back into the same ditch as we've cut a track for it so it no longer runs further down the road..  Originally it was running straight down the field, through their garage and out onto the road, running there for 100yards or more and pooling where the snow and ice has made the road uneven anyway ::)  So the JCB work has saved the neighbour and most of the road and the far end house to the extent that the roadside stuff isn't coming back up their drive..

So just me, my field, my ponies and my problem I guess, I can't see SW or SEPA wanting to know except perhaps to demand what I'm doing ::)  Might be nice to have a few hard frosts and see if the topsoil won't freeze enough to push the water back where it is meant to be ::)
Barleyfields Smallholding & Kirkcarrion Highland Ponies
https://www.facebook.com/kirkcarrionhighlands/
Ellie Douglas Therapist
https://www.facebook.com/Ellie-Douglas-Therapist-124792904635278/

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: water where water shouldn't be
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2011, 09:12:53 pm »
ELLIED if it is burst or chocked drains the water will not magically disappear until the drain is repaired

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
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Re: water where water shouldn't be
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2011, 10:03:16 pm »
Scottish Water and SEPA are very helpful and they will give you advice.  That's my experience of them anyway.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

cooper956

  • Joined Dec 2009
Re: water where water shouldn't be
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2011, 10:08:10 pm »
not a clay pipe turning into a sod drain is it? we find loads at farm next door when im doing work for them it would be a clay pipe drain that seams to end but aparently in war years  they got pow`s to dig drains and they would take the turf off in a v dig trench then leve lips on ether side near the botom then place the turf upside down over it forming  a chanle for water then fill in they lasted so lond and fell in in places sometime pipe where pit in at these places hence pipe seaming to go nowhere hope you followed that ;D

 

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