[jonkil]

Listening to BBC R4 this morning and an interesting interview with some economist forecaster stating the future of food prices. We sort of all know about the hedge fund managers buying up the futures of food, wheat/rice/coffee/maize/cotton etc and this will push up the prices of food in the years ahead, so much so that people in the 3rd world economies living on very little will are now beginning to die from malnutrition because of this.
That is worrying in itself, but the other thing he stated which has implications for all our economies; that is the fact that the wealthy Chinese/Russians/Indians are buying up massive tracts of land where they can get them, mostly to grow bio-fuel to feed their demand for oil. This will push the prices for land massively up in the future for such ventures and not for growing food at all........... if what he states is correct there is a bleak future ahead for everyone......... The other worrying fact is that the UK has "6 meals per person stored" !... that is in the event of a catastrophe there is 6 meals for everyone until we run out !!!!
Makes the fact that stockpiling and becoming as self sufficient as possible should be at the forefront of our thoughts if what he says is fact.

[doganjo]

Makes the fact that stockpiling and becoming as self sufficient as possible should be at the forefront of our thoughts if what he says is fact.

Sounds a bit like my feeble attempt at preparation during the Cold War in the 80s   As a young Mum I suddenly became aware of the crisis between Russia and America, and was determined to save my family if the nuclear warnings came, so for a whole week I stashed away tins of food for ourselves and the dog in a large suitcase and made my husband take the bus to work so that I had transport to get me and the kids, dog and the suitcase up to the hospital where he worked to collect him then head further out to the hills so we could all survive.  At the end of that week my very patient, loving and indulgent husband sat me down with a glass of wine and asked how long I thought it would take me to get loaded and reach him - I replied about 15 to 20 minutes if I was in a hurry.  His answer - and how does that compare with the four minute warning, my sweet one?  Lesson learned!  Futile trying!  Enjoy life as it is, don't worry about what may never happen.  He died in a car crash when we had been married 23 years (about 20 years later), and there was no nuclear attack

[robert waddell]

dogandjo       head out to the hills  when Chernobyl(hope thats the spelling) exploded it was the hills that was affected the Denny hills where carron reservoir is the lambs were paint marked every year through the auction ring bid on and sent for destruction (not fit for humane consumption) this has only stopped recently also dumfries and Galloway cumbria and in wales

[morri2]

Doganjo, thats a really sad story of yours.  But your dear hubby did indeed have a point!!  That said, this time is somewhat different - its a worldwide affair and its happening already.  Most of what we probably need to know to be certain is being kept from us - as its 'in the public interest not to cause unrest'!! 

If food shortages (or rather WHEN food shortages) start taking effect to the extent that people begin to  notice, it will undoubtedly result in panic buying, rioting and a general misplacement of that thin veneer known as civilised behaviour!  The big questions here are how and when this will start, and not if.  The demographics are such that there is no way of feeding the masses if something were to happen (war/climate change/pandemic/crop diseases/no fuel) that would disrupt the present system of food supply and transport.  Clearly some of those idiots we, the public (and those of other countries) have blessed with the honour of taking care of us, the population, are feathering their own nests - and why are they doing this ??  Because they know the good times are about to end and they have the opportunity to do something about it - for themselves, that is!  Smallholding is an excellent way to get through the times ahead - growing food, bartering with and for services and surplus and basically returning to a medieval economy are what we can look forward to.  However, that does nothing to help those in the towns and cities who have no land and cannot even change a plug, let alone convert a  diesel car to veggie oil or create their own power - what will become of these people?  Probably descend on the countryside in hordes, looking for food - HELP!!!

[Rosemary]

I also heard some of the R4 programme this morning but the folk I heard had a quite different view. One gentleman, I think either Indian or of Indian extraction, was saying that India could feed itself and that much of this was scaremongering to frighten people into accepting GM food, as promoted by multinational businesses and the governments that are in their pockets.

Another contributer said that the key was population control; that there was scaremongering over population growth and that the world could feed itself IF population was controlled. He also said that food waste was an issue - as we all know from programmes like "Fish Fight".

Also this morning was an article about the shortfall in funding for vaccines for the developing world. Unless the funding shortfall is remedied, 4 million children will die unnecessarily by 2020 (I think).

Wheels within wheels.

[doganjo]

Doganjo, thats a really sad story of yours.  But your dear hubby did indeed have a point!! 

I don't look on it as sad - Sandy was right!  Live for today, don't worry about what might happen tomorrow - it might never come.  My second husband was killed in a climbing accident and he had the very same attitude - live for today, tomorrow never comes.

[morri2]

Doganjo I'm impressed with your optimism given such dreadful events in your life - you are very brave.

Meantime - back to the point in question - have a look at this (not sure this link will work as I've not tried this before...fingers crossed!)  :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12249909

Any comments??

[doganjo]

Thanks, but not brave, just practical - you can't unhappen events. Weeping and wailing and wringing of hands is a waste of time and energy.  I miss both my men, but there's worse int eh world than that - just look at Moscow tonight!

Try this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12249909

[Bright Raven]

Do we think this scaremongering news is enough to make the general public ....

a, give their blessings to GM food and some GM livestock?
b, cause enough fear to enable the government to authorise all police to carry guns and use other weapons to maintain calm when we all panic?
c, cause panic buying and the further increase of prices?
d, really believe without question that population control is a legitimate and necessary strategy?                                                                          (Did I mention that more children will cause more carbon dioxide pollution and we know we have to take this seriously don't we! Let's reduce that footprint folks! )
e, encourage and legitimise the belief that fuel rationing is essential?


Do we think that questions about  the viability and safety of GM foods and the arguments against will be swept aside........?
Hummmmmmmm

 

[morri2]

Thanks for that Doganjo - I never was any good at technology!!

[morri2]

Brightraven - not quite sure where you're coming from here, methinks (and I may be wrong, please correct me if I am) that your reply contains a smidgin of cynicism perhaps??  My personal view is that (taking these from your list) a. Is totally unacceptable, b.  May or may not be necessary, c. Is probably inevitable, d. Necessary, but difficult and daunting, e.  Essential unless we can find a suitable alternative which looks highly unlikely. 

[Bright Raven]

If cynicism is a mask for failing to cope then I will put up my hands and admit that I cannot cope with the deceits of the few that oppress and suppress the many.

[lazybee]

Unfortunately you can't argue with the numbers: world population in 1800 was about 1 billion, now it's almost 7 billion and accelerating. To be brutally honest, something has to give.

[morri2]

There is no problem on this planet that we face  that could not be solved, or eased, by fewer human inhabitants!  I have held this view, and expressed it when appropriate, for the past 25 years and its only now that its being recognised.  We all know what the big question is now - in a society so intent saving as many human lives as possible (and thats not a bad thing - it shows we have compassion), how is this going to be possible?  Many, including me, take the view that there could well be non-human intervention before we get the chance to hatch any suitable plan.  Food and water shortages are going to trigger wars and famines - a scenario which is unpalattable and unpleasant but only avoidable by sensitive and sensible government policies - and what are the chances of that?  Brightraven has already worked it out!!!