[PipKelpy]

Questions for those who know!

Orla has lambed, bloody hell!

We've struggled, big tup, with horns!

She's a Wiltshire Horn, lamb is off a Shetland, are horned breeds born with horns? I thought little buds, barely felt!

Another question, I'm used to lambing 142 - 145, 146 a few, 147 rarely. Going by when she was tupped, she's lambed 156 and the last few days she's been peeved to say the least! But, I also saw the tup playing but not marking if that makes sense 12 days later, which means 144 days.

Ideas anyone?

[twizzel]

I’d say 144 days is more likely than 156. No idea on the horns, as I’ve got lleyns 

[Richmond]

We have used a Soay tup on WH ewes for the last 3 seasons. All ram lambs have been born with horn "bumps", some bigger than others.  Our biggest ram lamb this year ("Horny") is 3 weeks old tomorrow and has little horns already almost 2 inches long. Despite the significant bumps none of the ewes had trouble lambing the boys.

[shep53]

Scottish Black face can be very difficult to lamb as a strong tup lamb can be born with horns already well developed as both sexes have horns  .  156 days is  very possible  , 147 days is the average for sheep of all breeds so   any where from 142  to 159    , ive had hill breeds always start lambing at  141 days with a few at  139 ,140  and when i bred suffolks then many lambed in the 150's  with i think  157 being the longest

[Penninehillbilly]

There was a tv program, showed a newly born lamb, I think it was (S. blackface), HhUGE born buds, first thing I said was 'poor ewe', and decided not to have blackface sheep .
Maybe if she's gone past her time that would account for horns developing a bit more?

[SallyintNorth]

Yup, different breeds have a different amount of horn present at birth.  Also variation within a breed. 

Swaledales, like the Blackfaces they resemble, can have pretty massive horn buds at birth.  You learn to be sure to not feed a single in case it's a tup lamb, you don't want a strapping girt lamb with a massive hard head in that birth canal...   (And Blackies have an even narrower birth canal than Swales...)  Breeders of Exmoor Horns pursue twins, and don't feed singles, for the same reason.

I do wonder if there is a bit of a correlation between horn bud size in tup lambs and whether both sexes are horned.  Swales, Blackies, Exmoor Horns and WHs are horned both sexes, Shetland tup lambs tend to have modest little scurs at birth, and Shetland ewes are not usually horned. 

[Fleecewife]

Sometimes two horned Hebrideans have large horn buds at birth but the 4 horned variety don't nor do they have such chunky skulls.  In the two horned version they are buds, not actual horns yet, just big dods.
[member=194324]PipKelpy[/member] did you get a pic of the horns, as one mans huge horn is another mans little bud.....
(apologies, that sounds very rude, not meant to  )

[shep53]

Have a look on Youtube at Eweknit's  latest post the lamb has the size of horns blackies have

[PipKelpy]

Sometimes two horned Hebrideans have large horn buds at birth but the 4 horned variety don't nor do they have such chunky skulls.  In the two horned version they are buds, not actual horns yet, just big dods.
[member=194324]PipKelpy[/member] did you get a pic of the horns, as one mans huge horn is another mans little bud.....
(apologies, that sounds very rude, not meant to  )

Ha!

Agree though, to me they are horns but others would say buds, pointy though!

Bloody sheep though! STILL waiting on 2 wild WH to lamb, I swear they are keeping their legs shut to spite me! I've managed to get a 3rd to eat out of my hand but won't let me stroke between her horns or scratch neck and the other stamps her feet at me. Mum came down and said hello to her, she stamped her feet and snorted!

This year's lambing is NOT turning out how I expected!

[PipKelpy]

Sometimes two horned Hebrideans have large horn buds at birth but the 4 horned variety don't nor do they have such chunky skulls.  In the two horned version they are buds, not actual horns yet, just big dods.
[member=194324]PipKelpy[/member] did you get a pic of the horns, as one mans huge horn is another mans little bud.....
(apologies, that sounds very rude, not meant to  )

Ha!

Agree though, to me they are horns but others would say buds, pointy though!

Bloody sheep though! STILL waiting on 2 wild WH to lamb, I swear they are keeping their legs shut to spite me! I've managed to get a 3rd to eat out of my hand but won't let me stroke between her horns or scratch neck and the other stamps her feet at me. Mum came down and said hello to her, she stamped her feet and snorted!

This year's lambing is NOT turning out how I expected!

1 down, 1 to go! Twin tups STRUGGLE, each with 1 leg back and head tilted instead of flat on legs, one got nothing, other got white buds. She still washing them, ate out of mum's hand! The other?? Charged at Mum in shed! She'll be going!

[PipKelpy]

Sometimes two horned Hebrideans have large horn buds at birth but the 4 horned variety don't nor do they have such chunky skulls.  In the two horned version they are buds, not actual horns yet, just big dods.
[member=194324]PipKelpy[/member] did you get a pic of the horns, as one mans huge horn is another mans little bud.....
(apologies, that sounds very rude, not meant to  )

Ha!

Agree though, to me they are horns but others would say buds, pointy though!

Bloody sheep though! STILL waiting on 2 wild WH to lamb, I swear they are keeping their legs shut to spite me! I've managed to get a 3rd to eat out of my hand but won't let me stroke between her horns or scratch neck and the other stamps her feet at me. Mum came down and said hello to her, she stamped her feet and snorted!

This year's lambing is NOT turning out how I expected!

1 down, 1 to go! Twin tups STRUGGLE, each with 1 leg back and head tilted instead of flat on legs, one got nothing, other got white buds. She still washing them, ate out of mum's hand! The other?? Charged at Mum in shed! She'll be going!

Mmm!

Well, Tiara eats out of my hand, begrudgingly, then stomps her foot at me. Mum said "makes you wonder what previous owner did to them!"

She also lambed early this morning, big tup, needed pulling, pointy buds, lamb walks on his back ankles, will improve! 2nd lamb dead as was coming backwards and drowned.

3 primitives left to the same tup! Hoping they will be ok.

[steve_pr]

If there is much Wiltshire Horn in the bloodlines then yes, they are born with horn buds that can be quite prominent although usually fairly smooth. However, within 2-3 days they will have started to erupt properly and be definite horns, especially on the rams where the horns tend to be broader. If the ewe was a few days late then it is quite possible that the horns got tired of waiting and started to erupt prior to birth.


Never had a problem with this on our Wilts, who tend to lamb very easily, but could be a problem if you get a big ram lamb in breach position!