[robert waddell]

poor handling facilitys been there  swearing done that still do bitten not yet  as to giving up there heart could not have been in it

[HappyHippy]

PP when Lillian (or her OH ) say 'crap' I think they mean in terms of conforming to the standards of excellence for the breed - essential if you're going to breed from them or selling on as breeding stock. Usually (providing you're a member of the BPA) ALL piglets are birth notified, when you're breeding from registered pedigree parents - but you should only register and sell the very best ones as breeding stock, otherwise you're running the risk of people buying from you saying they're planning on rearing them for pork, only to find out they've bred bad breed representations from them and are selling them on - this is very bad for the breed and also for your reputation.
Lillian is the Tamworth breed rep for Scotland, so she's the absolute expert on this, in my opinion her word is the law 
As for giving up, (obviously there might have been personal circumstances which meant she had to stop) but more likely that she either couldn't be bothered with all the associated work (especially in the winter !) wasn't experienced enough to cope or realised she was never going to get rich doing it. It's amazing how many people think they can buy them, stick them in a field, 6 months later add in a boar and hey presto - piglets and profits  If it was THAT easy, everyone would be doing it   
I started keeping pigs to help the breeds at risk, produce some lovely pork for ourselves and have the enjoyment of looking after them - over the last 6 or 7 years that has grown to the stage of breeding and selling on piglets and pork to others. I love my pigs, wouldn't be without them - but I'm never going to retire with what I make from them financially 

[princesspiggy]

im more concerned with not running at a loss, read in pig farmer book, the difference between weaning at 6 weeks or 8 weeks, and then timing of subsequent pregnancy and therefore numbers produced over lifetime of sow,  could mean difference between profit and loss. if professional farmers run at loss thats worrying.

[HappyHippy]

I think if you're only worried about the profits, maybe keeping pigs isn't for you 
You have to wean when the piglets are ready, not when's best for business 
Commercial farmers (and by that, I mean those who have to make a living from it) are at the mercy of the suppliers and their demand for 'cheap' meat - this generally involves sheds, pig pellet diet and large whites (or similar)for high volume production and quick turnaround. What you're selling is rare breed, slow grown, outdoor pork. This will attract a higher value for the piglets and the pork - but as has been discussed at length just about everywhere on the forum, the margin for profit is small - you've got to be doing it for the pigs, not the profit.
Karen x

[robert waddell]

large pig units 1000 +sows run very close to nil proffit 16 pigglets per litter can be proffit 14 per litter can be a massive loss in true terms you are in a loss situation already and they are not in pig yet bloody books light the fire with them  you could write a book you would make more money at it

[Hilarysmum]

we chose these two gilts as weaners so i could make sure they tame and well handled before maternal instinct and sexual hormones kicked in. ............  didnt a wild cranky old sow that was gona chase me outa field after her piglets were born.

    H  I  L  A  R  Y    

[HappyHippy]

...................still laughing ! 

[princesspiggy]

I think if you're only worried about the profits, maybe keeping pigs isn't for you 
[/quote

dont be daft,    i know my questions sounded harsh, i dont always have a great way with words -ha . i do completely adore my pigs, thyre my pride and joys. waited a long time to get my sows,sourced the best breeding stock i could. im def not into breeding poor quality stock and enjoy showing our animals to ensure theyre close to  breed standard. im sure my 5 earlier weaners have given me enough experience to try small scale pig breeding, im at a place in my life where iv never been so happy, got the animals iv wanted, with a farm thats not perfect but suits us very well.
im mostly full-time with my rare breeds at minute, also breed ponies poultry sheep.just got cows and new goats arriving shortly. etc really interested in animals on critical list as i think small breeders can make a big difference to there numbers. iv wanted to breed pigs for many years, just trying to find out all info i can, as other people round here seemed to have set up then closed down. my dream is to breed tammies but need to ensure that they can stand on their own feet as iv other animals reliant on me aswell . pig-breeding could be expensive mistake if done wrong, trying to avoid common mistakes. its not all about making money  but at same time they still need feeding, wormers and vet bills etc. slightly nervous of taking the plunge - which i will anyway- my idea of success is a good herd of good reputation, health and temperment, and still here in 5, 10, and 15 years!! we're not posh, closestwe get to designers clothes is HM forces Jacket LOL  
learnt so much from these forums, thats why i ask so many questions, cos u cant always find answers in books. plus if u ask a farmer, u get one view, if you ask a enthusiast breeder, you get another and wer sort of in middle. all advice greatly appreciated xx

[HappyHippy]

I wasn't having a go, please don't think that for a second, but we've had some very bizarre questions from people who obviously don't have a clue what they're doing in the past - I'm always wary, but that's just me  It sounds like you've got your head screwed on PP - unlike myself, I'm mad as a hatter lol! But I did my homework and all the ground work too   
Mine pay for themselves - pretty much, and we either get profit (small one) or pork for ourselves.
The commercial guys are really up against it to produce a carcass for £x, usually pre-determined and not taking account for rising prices etc, so for them to turn a profit they've got to have HUGE numbers of pigs.
Providing you concentrate on quality breeding and rearing you should be able to get a better price for your weaners/pork, whichever you decide to do. Personally I'd do both, that way you know for sure the standard of the porkers you're selling and those who buy your pork, may at some point in the future approach you for a couple of weaners to raise themself. Key point here is ADVERTISING ! You've got to make sure you get the word out about what you're doing, so people in your area know about you - go to local markets, attend farmers markets and just talk to people, perhaps there's a farm shop or local grocers in your area that would consider selling your pork as and when you have it. Get posters up, get a website and really work on spreading the word 
Just gimmie a shout if you get stuck, I'm happy to help if I can 
Karen x

[princesspiggy]

thats great, actually theres a couple of farm shops around, neva thought of that. thought bout my own farm shop but wud rather be out in glaur (im learning-lilian x) than standing at counter.
never said i was sane - everyones mad in their own little way!! 

[Hilarysmum]

I don't know whether the situation is the same as here where it is expected that 30-40 % of pig farmers in our region will go out of business next year.  This despite the fact that farmers are still paid subsidies (the difference between survival and bankruptcy for many).  Yet still the supermarkets demand cheaper and cheaper meat. 

The only way to make a profit on pigs (in my experience) is to add value to the cheaper cuts i.e. bottled bolognese sauce (done my a professional not me) expensively packed pate, etc.  Just our experience here.

[robert waddell]

PIG FARMERS DO NOT GET ANY SUBSIDY OR EURO CASH UNLESS THEY  HAVE ANOTHER ENTERPRISE POSSIBLY FOR NEW BUILD SHEDS BUT DEFINATELY NOT FOR HAVING PIGS

[princesspiggy]

i tho that too. thanx for all advice. will bite the bullet and do it anyway. 

[Hilarysmum]

For what is supposed to be an even market British Pig Farmers are definitely suffering.

[chickenfeed]

 :wave:my parent used to supply the local butcher, 20 odd years ago but the prices are low and when they stared out it was for 10 every week then after they got in the swing they would have a lsat minute phone call make that 10 20 this week then the next few weeks would be 15 - 25 then back to 10 its hard to plan when sales are so up and down and if you let then down and cant supply enough one week they will find another source, so you can be left with pigs ready to go and nowhere to send them.they got out of pigs years back when the prices really fell out of the pig market.

i would try supplying farm shops or resturants.

we only sell to family and friends now on a much smaller scale than my parents had set up (once bitten and all that) and only keep traditional pigs rather than commercial.