[thehappypixi]

Hi, have just rediscovered this forum after a faceoook post!
Initially looking at goats for milk, but perhaps dismissed cows too quickly so just having a bit of a think..

How much space do you need? And if opting to live out, what kind of shelter?
I have one quite hilly rough field of 10acres. Or half my other field about 2.5 acres currently free. Do you need to rotate grazing?

[Dan]

There's a short guide here you might find useful: https://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/livestock/cattle/feeding-cattle/

[Rosemary]

The rule of thumb is 1 cow and calf to the acre for grazing and one acre for winter forage - but of course, it depends on the size of the cow, the quality of the grazing and the weather. We keep 4 cows and a bull on ten acres - this year has been a nightmare.
Rotating grazing or mob grazing is good practice. We rotate ours round five paddocks

Personally, unless I had acres and acres of grazing, I would plan to house cattle over the winter - the mess they can make is astonishing, especially if it's wet. We house ours 1st November to 30th April, more or less and feed hay. Gives me the chance to halter train the spring born calves as well.
Even in summer, mine come into the shed every day - we'll be milking again next year, so I'm keen to keep them in the habit.

We have Shetland cattle - small(ish), docile, dual purpose. Don't regret getting them at all.

[Anke]

There are Belted Galloways living out on the Eildons over winter, but are fed hay (or maybe straw, I can onmly see it from the road). But most farmers around here will house their cattle over winter.

[SallyintNorth]

If you are wanting to milk your cows over winter, then unless your ground just doesn't get muddy, you will want them housed over winter.  The problem with keeping them out with access to a shelter is that the ground around the shelter quickly becomes a quagmire, it's hard then to get to it to bed them, and they can start to sink into the mud and get mud on the teats, leading to mastitis.  (Even if they are not in milk over winter, getting mud on the teats is a recipe for mastitis after calving... ask me how I know :/)

Jerseys need a *lot* of grass, so if you do go for cattle, I'd recommend something less high performance, for instance like the Shetland or Northern Dairy Shorthorn (not to be confused with a regular Dairy Shorthorn).  They won't produce as much milk as a Jersey but they will manage on significantly less grass, and worse grass, than a Jersey, and generally be easier to keep well. 

Which do you prefer, goats or cows?  Keeping milking animals is a *lot* of work, and has to be done every day in all weathers, so it's a good idea to choose animals you really like! 

[twizzel]

Before you get cattle research the tb status of where you live. If you’re in an annual or 6 monthly area seriously consider whether you want the stress of testing. We are on 6 monthly now and it’s a pain in the ass

[Rosemary]

Before you get cattle research the tb status of where you live. If you’re in an annual or 6 monthly area seriously consider whether you want the stress of testing. We are on 6 monthly now and it’s a pain in the ass

Good point. Because we're exempt from TB testing, I tend to forget about it. I'm not sure I'd keep cows in a high TB area. Too stressful.

[SallyintNorth]

Before you get cattle research the tb status of where you live. If you’re in an annual or 6 monthly area seriously consider whether you want the stress of testing. We are on 6 monthly now and it’s a pain in the ass

Whereas our vet put us on 12-monthly, as we are a low risk site within a 6-month testing area, without discussing it with us, which made me cross.  If the vet is here doing a TB test, which the government pays for, they are always happy for you to pre-arrange for them to look at anything else whilst they're there, saving the call-out fee.  And the regs for them to be able to dispense antibiotics now require them to have been on farm within the last 6 months, which they always will have been if you're on 6-monthly testing!  So that saves buckets of both money and time.  In that if you need antibiotics more than 6 months since your last TB test, you have to pay for a callout and consultation, when you already knew you needed antibiotics and were perfectly capable of administering them yourself.   

Our cows, being house cows, are very quiet and used to coming into our parlour, and the vet, knowing them and knowing us, is happy to jag them in their milking stalls, and read them 3 days later loose in the yard.  If your cattle are less quiet and/or you keep but don't halter train and tame your calves, then yes the TB test is a bit more of a palaver, and you'd need a crush. 

[SallyintNorth]

I don't get at all stressed or bothered by the testing itself - but being in a high risk area, there is always a bit of anxiety waiting the 3 days for the results, of course. 

[twizzel]

It won’t be your vet putting you on annual in a 6 month zone, it’ll be apha. Whilst the actual testing is stressful, it’s not knowing where the business will be in 6 months financially which stresses me out more. But most smallholders wouldn’t need to worry too much about that. We try and sell in the autumn suckled calf sales but have previously been shut down on a pre movement. Now we plan forage and straw stocks for winter based on being shut down, and if we’re not and are able to sell at the suckled calf sales it’s a bonus 

[Anke]

I think poster is in the Scottish Borders, so TB testing every four years, and preferably not buying from high risk area.

[SallyintNorth]

It won’t be your vet putting you on annual in a 6 month zone, it’ll be apha.

Our area is on 6-months, but we got a letter telling us that individual holdings can apply to be on 12 months if they are historically very low risk.  We decided to not apply for only being tested every 12 months for all the reasons I outlined above, only to find that we had been put on 12 months only on our vets' recommendation.

[PipKelpy]

It won’t be your vet putting you on annual in a 6 month zone, it’ll be apha.

Our area is on 6-months, but we got a letter telling us that individual holdings can apply to be on 12 months if they are historically very low risk.  We decided to not apply for only being tested every 12 months for all the reasons I outlined above, only to find that we had been put on 12 months only on our vets' recommendation.

Are these letters continuous then? I got mine last year stating that certain holdings would be changed back to 12 monthly testing (we're 6 month area) and I was one of them as I was classed as low risk in a high risk area. But it also stated that it can be withdrawn at any time if circumstances changed! Now, when I got the letter, I had planned that cattle would be tested in Feb and depart with the flying pigs! As it was, it actually turned out better selling in July, with not harvesting, the cattle have scoffed the grass (distant memory, long lush green stuff!)

Also, when I booked the TB test, vets were surprised I was 12 month! Even neighbour was! I like to think Mary is special! As long as she can keep passing annual TB test, that's all that matters! In theory, she should with only being on our own land with dippy sheep!