[Penninehillbilly]

I had forgotten that last year the tup got in with the females. I thought I'd got him out quick, but it appears he was a busy boy, had a few unexpected lambings.
Last night a 2021 lamb lambed twins, luckily i'd been feeding and realised she was missing.
Got to her as the first was laid with its head bent back under itself. Waited for 2nd (she wouldn't follow first) then managed to get them inside. This took time, and making a makeshift pen in field shelter, luckily OH came looking for me about midnight.
*Then realised 2nd was cold and becoming unresponsive. Got it home, in box with hot bottle under towel. Warmed up enough to feed about 3am, tried online suggestion of honey on lips, he liked that, but then only had goats milk, gave it  a small drink while i defrosted goats colostrum, this was taken/frozen 20hrs after goat kidded, but all i'd got. I think he's had about 250ml, last 50ml topped up to 100ml with goats milk in a few minutes. I presume it's too late to find any colostrum, any advice please? How I wish I'd frozen some this year. He is drinking well now.
* his back legs don't seem to work much, he can move them, but cannot walk. Is this likely to resolve itself like feet being bent backwards? The longer I keep him going the harder it will be to deal with a problem (emotionally)
* The ewe doesn't seem to have much milk, she is good body condition, will the bit she is giving be enough For now? (i presume she is supplying some and lamb nmbr1 keeps taking it, He was warm this morning), and presuming she will increase as needed?
TIA

[Anke]

So he is not yet 24 hours old - yes getting him some more colostrum (early goatsmilk) would probably still be beneficial, and it is in goatsmilk for about 3 days - my milk often looks quite yellow for the first few days and will not filter well, so I presume that is colostrum.


Back legs not working - congenital swayback (as in lack of copper in the ewe's diet) maybe. I have only had it once, and the lamb was culled more or less straight away.. The ewe didn't want to know, so I tubed the lamb (I did have colostrum in the freezer) and then went to check my books... he hadn't moved and the ewe didn't want to know. When I got into the pen she shot out, never to come near her lamb again. 

[Fleecewife]

Yes, I was thinking swayback too.  We had some cases way back  when we kept Jacobs and they were destroyed as soon as seen. Ewes know and I'm sure rejection of a second lamb is often in response to a cause such as that, or something which only comes to light in human eyes much later. Sheep are not daft 

[SallyintNorth]

The key window for the most effective passive immunity via colostrum is 2-6 hours old, but in my experience, colostrum remains magical fluid and I give it to any lamb that needs bucking up, and it usually does buck them up!  So I would certainly give him some more if you have some handy.

Personally I wouldn't expect a one year old to carry, give birth to and feed two lambs any more than I would expect most ewes to manage 3.  So I would probably take the second one off and hand rear (or adopt if the opportunity arises, and he is standing by then.)  But your circs may make supporting him with the mother a better option for you.  (Which we often do with triples, top 'em up in the field twice a day.) 

It's possible it's swayback, which is caused by lack of copper during pregnancy.  There is a big breed component...  Our North Country Mules used to need copper needles, or a chelated drench, half way through gestation.  Texels tend to make better use of what copper is available, shouldn't be given copper supplementation unless tested deficient by the vet, and rarely have swayback lambs.  North Ronaldsays famously can't tolerate extra copper. 

Swayback lambs generally do not improve, but some will make it to fat weight okay and are mobile enough to be transported to the abattoir.  Some deteriorate as their bodies get heavier. 

I have, over the years, had the odd "floppy" lamb that wasn't swayback and did eventually stand.  Could have been a deficiency - selenium maybe - in pregnancy, or could have been cramped in the uterus and needs some time to come right.  Or possibly isn't completely cooked and just needs a few more days.  Sunlight always helps, extra minerals (like Lamb Boost or similar) won't hurt.  If no improvement over 48 hours then either euthanase or see if the vet can spot anything.  (We had one lamb really wanted to live but couldn't use his back legs, vet found a tumour on his spine and injected steroids.  That one did come right.  Another similar a few years later did not fully recover and deteriorated again, sadly.) 

[Penninehillbilly]

I don't think the dam totally rejected the lamb, she was licking him, but as he wasn't responding she then concentrated on nmbr1.
Maybe time getting them to the field shelter didnt help things, upset her a bit, but there was a bitter wind,  field shelter on bedding had to be worth getting to.
He has been trying to stand a bit this afternoon, his feet are bent back like the female about a week ago, who came right.
I'd already told OH lamb unlikely to be going back, I wasn't happy about her being in lamb so young, hoping she can cope with the one. It would be good if we could get this chap back to her of course.
She's never joined in the melee for feed, so hoping now she has access to ewe nuts they will help her.

[shep53]

Only time will tell if she has enough milk to feed the remaining lamb , you should tell if he is hungry in the next few days  and be prepared to top up if needed ,it sounds like the pet lamb will stand given time

[Penninehillbilly]

LOL, just gave him 100ml, he's only small, in a standard pet/cat carrier.
Then out of curiosity I stood him and steadied him, he had a nice long piddle, well more of a dribble really, but I think he was relieved.
Nothing from back end though.
In fact it look more like female under the tail, def got it's bits though???

[Anke]

Nothing from back end though.
In fact it look more like female under the tail, def got it's bits though???

Which end did he pee from?


I had a goat kid last spring that had a difficult birth and was tiny (less than 2kgs) - she took a couple of days to get the meconium out (and when it came there was lots of it - the resident labrador was in heaven, as it was of course all over the floor, as kid lived in a dog crate in the house)... now that I remember she also took a couple of days to stand... she grew on fine, but completely on the bottle.

[Penninehillbilly]

Been 'walking', well, staggering, but more co-ordination there  .
Anke, def. peeing from underneath, very handy for popping a little tub under.
But not tonight, luckily he was on a towel.
JR doesn't know what to make of him on the kitchen floor.

[Anke]

Been 'walking', well, staggering, but more co-ordination there  .
Anke, def. peeing from underneath, very handy for popping a little tub under.
But not tonight, luckily he was on a towel.
JR doesn't know what to make of him on the kitchen floor.

Looks like progress then.... he may just have been slow, possibly a bit premature as well?

[Penninehillbilly]

Backwards step, He got out of his box overnight, found him splayed with back legs out/back. Can't seem to stand now . Hoping its temporary.
Poor dog has been barking, probably trying to call me.(she's outside the glass door)



Also dam hasn't expelled after birth, should I be concerned yet?

[SallyintNorth]

If you are sure the ewe has not passed the placenta (and eaten it, or something else has), she needs antibiotics.  Usually that will get it out within 48 hours. 

[Penninehillbilly]

Sally, still a string hanging there, and all bedding still clean.
Which AB would you suggest please?

[Anke]

Backwards step, He got out of his box overnight, found him splayed with back legs out/back. Can't seem to stand now .

Mmmmhhh... not good.


Re placenta: I would normally use something like Alamycin LA and repeat a couple/three days later to be on the safe side.

[Penninehillbilly]

Seems to have pneumonia now 😢
Gave him tetroxy last night, got very little milk down him this morning.
Any tips for cleaning the gunge from under the tail?