Author Topic: Bad start to lambing  (Read 4399 times)

tommytink

  • Joined Aug 2018
Bad start to lambing
« on: March 03, 2022, 09:17:04 pm »
In what seems to be a morbid tradition our first lamb of the year is dead. It looks perfect and I’m not sure why. The ewe is an outdoor lamber. She’d separated herself off earlier and was restless. Then pawing at the ground but not actually laying and pushing. I never saw a bag and was trying not to interfere. I then saw her lay down a couple of times, came away, and when I checked back later the lamb was out and dead.
So anyway, pretty depressing. I have no lamb to give the ewe and being an outdoor girl I couldn’t adopt on anyway. She’s obviously bagged up. I was going to put her in with the ewe lambs on poor grass. Will this be okay?

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Bad start to lambing
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2022, 11:03:02 pm »
 :hug:

They say you get your bad luck at the beginning or at the end.  It's not unusual to have a few hiccups with the first one or two.  Doesn't make it any easier at the time, I know.  Hopefully you will soon be busy with all the successful births and happy lambs  :hug:

My Cumbrian farmer used to regularly set lambs on outdoors.  But only where the ewe was grieving.  In that case, skinning the dead lamb, coating the adoptee and leaving it where the dead lamb had been or very near, then staying well away, worked most of the time.  But where the ewe isn't grieving, adopting indoors or out is often an uphill struggle, and not always successful.

Personally I would not be very happy to have a newly-lactating ewe (with no lamb) on grass for the first week to 10 days.  But it's tricky when she is the first and there isn't another to put on a bare patch with her, with some hay. 

My other qualm about putting her with the ewe lambs is if there is an infective cause to the term or near term still birth.  She will have fluids on her, which would infect the ewe lambs, and mean they may have the same happen to them their first time. 

Could she go in with the tups?  They don't need to be eating much this time of year, and she won't be fertile just now. 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

PipKelpy

  • Joined Mar 2019
  • North Shropshire
  • Dreamer with sheep.
Re: Bad start to lambing
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2022, 07:48:41 am »
Feel for ya!

My 1st one this year cost me a vet bill of £441. Prolapse, various visits, c-section. (NEVER had prolapse before so all this new to me!) Little ewe, twins, NO WAY will I recoup this at auction for culling her and 2 spring lambs. Her twin sister also had a big dead elephant, but a live little one!

Was hoping to keep all the ewe lambs off the Wiltshires as being half Dorset Down they are growing like weeds compared to the purebreds that came with the ewes last year.

BUT, due to  costs rising, they may have to go.

Remind me please folks WHY we bother with sheep?
No matter how crap you feel, always remember you're one of the lucky ones with your own piece of land and loony sheep!

tommytink

  • Joined Aug 2018
Re: Bad start to lambing
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2022, 08:16:35 am »
I don’t am questioning why we do it too. Feeling guilty I didn’t intervene but she wasn’t actively pushing, just pawing about and being restless. I thought maybe she’s just taking her time. I saw her lay down and thought okay she might be starting and I’ll check her in a bit and if nothing catch her up and have a look but it was too late. My OH is mad about it and says I should’ve penned her up and checked her earlier. Now we have to sort her out  and will be worrying about her on top of numerous other things going on. Feeling pretty alone and depressed. Hopefully things will improve.

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Bad start to lambing
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2022, 09:01:37 am »
Don't beat yourself up - you did the best you could at the time, with the information and resources you had available.


We've found that lambing often starts badly as well, and I don't think it's a coincidence. For example two years ago we started with two prolapses, and last year we had a ewe who looked uncomfortable for a day before having a seizure and dropping dead. At the time they all felt dreadful, but looking back, each of them was actually a pre-lambing problem, so it's no wonder they came first.

Do the best you can for her and then move on. Also please don't blame each other - once you both get tired, that's a one way street to having a thoroughly awful time (and yes I did once sleep in the hayshed because I didn't want to be anywhere near OH because she was mad with me!).
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

twizzel

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Bad start to lambing
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2022, 10:55:36 am »
Don’t beat yourself up, these things happen. Lambing is hard work and regardless of how many sheep you have, will always have set backs. Anyone who says they don’t is lying!

tommytink

  • Joined Aug 2018
Re: Bad start to lambing
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2022, 02:43:46 pm »
It’s so easy to look back now and say why didn’t I just catch her and check? I think because I hadn’t see her trying to push it didn’t occur to me that she was at that stage when in reality she may have been. My burden to bear now and have to move on although hearing her calling is heartbreaking.
I am concerned about her udder. I’ll ensure she doesn’t get much good feed etc and just hope it goes down okay but she is very full. She did such a good job in every way  :'(
The first year I milked the colostrum off the ewe but then felt that wasn’t a great decision as I’d opened the teats up to infection and encouraged milk production. 
I have another ewe of the same breed in at the moment who I am sure is due twins. Would it be bad to try and give this ewe one of them? I know it’s usually triplets. I don’t know if that’s immoral! She definitely has a lot of maternal instincts. I don’t have an adopter. Still have the dead lamb and the afterbirth. Any suggestions?
To update I do have a live lamb now but again needed assistance. It had a leg back and I ended up having to pull it one leg and the head. Leg was laid alongside the body as I couldn’t hook anything to bring it forward. But at least it’s alive.

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Bad start to lambing
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2022, 04:06:58 pm »
No, definitely not immoral. You can easily make an adopter out of a sheet of plywood. If you use thick enough ply, you don't need to reinforce it:





It's up to you if you give it a go or not. The worst that's likely to happen is that you end up with a lamb either on the bottle, or that you twin onto another one later.
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Bad start to lambing
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2022, 08:03:48 pm »
She's grieving and you have the dead lamb.  You shouldn't need an adopter.  She would probably take it even without the dead lamb's skin on it, but even more likely if you skin the dead lamb and put the skin on the adoptee.

If you are going to adopt one onto her (which is 100% the best thing to do), you may as well get some colostrum off her and into your freezer ;).  It will make her more comfortable for the lamb's first suckles, which could be painful if she is very full and tight. 

Let us know how you get on.  And congratulations on the live lamb and successful intervention.  I've done a fair few lambings with one front leg back, mainly in Texel types to a Texel type tup - chunky lambs, not a lot of room.  Sometimes you can make enough space to get the second foreleg by first fully extending the leg you've got.  It puts the scapula in a different orientation and makes the cross section a different shape.  But as you've found, they will often come out fine with one front leg back. 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

tommytink

  • Joined Aug 2018
Re: Bad start to lambing
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2022, 12:02:53 pm »
Still waiting on the other ewe to have her lambs. She was due on Monday just gone  ::) Thinking about time frames, when is it too late? I think I read elsewhere someone say 3/4 days is the max opportunity? She is still calling today so still missing her lamb. Is this enough for her to accept one I wonder  ???
If there are two lambs and we try to give her one, should we just put it in front of her and see what she does? See if she cleans it? All depends on whether we’re present for the birth. If it’s done it’s for her benefit, I don’t need her to look after it, so I don’t want to force anything on her if she’s not receptive. We call her Nanny as she had a dead lamb (deformed) the first year but then went on to look after everyone else’s, including one in particular, so I don’t think she’d be totally averse to stealing one. She raised a lovely big tup lamb last year and it would’ve been the same again this year. Still kicking myself for not checking her sooner.

twizzel

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Bad start to lambing
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2022, 12:47:27 pm »
I think you’d get better results skinning the dead lamb. Let the ewe clean off her lambs and let them both suck, then skin the dead lamb and lift one off to try and adopt on. But obviously be aware that if the foster ewe rejects the lamb, the original mother may not take it back either and you may end up with a pet lamb. I think time wise you may be pushing it though especially if you don’t want to bring her inside ?


I had a ewe that called and called when she lost her lambs but 100% would not take a foster lamb.

tommytink

  • Joined Aug 2018
Re: Bad start to lambing
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2022, 03:02:31 pm »
I have got her inside. Thought it worth seeing if she would settle and she’s doing okay indoors which was a surprise as she’s a little nervy usually. For context one of her sisters, the friendliest one of the flock, lasted for all of two hours in the shed last year. She beat up the other sheep and was literally kicking the door down.
This is something I think as well - she’s calling for her lamb and a replacement might not make any difference.

Edited to add I definitely don’t want a pet lamb!

twizzel

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Bad start to lambing
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2022, 03:34:24 pm »
If you definitely don’t want a pet lamb then don’t risk it, leave the twins with their mother and dry the ewe off that had the dead lamb.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Bad start to lambing
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2022, 08:20:19 pm »
I have put set-ons onto bereaved ewes at up to a week, even 10 days once or twice.  Of course you would need to check the milk supply before attempting an adoption, so it would probably be worth milking a bit off her every other day, just to keep her ticking over and to be sure there would be milk there for the foster lamb.

Had you not told us about her "Nanny" behaviour the first year, I might have been questioning you more closely about the calling she is doing.  Can she see other sheep nearby, or is she calling to try to make contact with flockmates, ie., just because she is on her own?  But that Nanny story screams "good candidate for fostering" to me, so I would definitely be planning to give it a go if it were me.

I agree there is a small risk she may not take the adoptee and if you keep trying for a while before giving up, you would then quite possibly end up with a bottle lamb.  But there would be little risk of the birth mother not taking the lamb back if need be, if you do it this way :

i) let the foster lamb have a feed off the birth mother and be licked, so there is a bond and the ewe knows she has 2
ii) wait for it to have a poop, save a bit of the poop
iii) take the lamb away and put the skin on it, pop it in with the bereaved ewe and stay nearby, ready to intervene if she objects to it, but don't interfere unless you have to
iv) assess the situation, and if it is the sort of adoption that is going to need a lot of support and possibly fail, take the lamb away, take the skin off and wipe the lamb down, smear a bit of its saved poop across its anus and under its tail, then rub your fingers across the top of its head, then put it near the birth mother.  Its own mother is highly unlikely not to take it back as it won't have been away long and it will smell of its own poop, which will smell of her milk.  (You could also save some of the birth fluids and rub some of those over it before returning it to its birth mother.)

However if after a short while the bereaved mother is talking to the lamb (making mummy sheep noises) and not butting it away, you have a very good chance of a successful adoption, even if you have to support the first feed or two.

In all my years lambing hundreds of ewes every year in Northumberland and Cumbria, I must have skinned more than 20 lambs myself and been involved in as many set-ons where someone else skinned the dead lamb, and I can remember only 2 where it didn't work at all, and all but a small handful took the lamb straight away.  (These are all ewes left with no lambs, and given a single set-on lamb, just as you are thinking of doing.  Figures are very different for trying to twin onto singles.) 

Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

tommytink

  • Joined Aug 2018
Re: Bad start to lambing
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2022, 09:38:42 am »
Well unfortunately the other sheep has still not lambed a week later. She was due 28/02 by the raddle mark but something is definitely awry with that. Nanny stopped calling (I think this was definitely looking for lamb calling as she was with others) and her bag has begun to reduce in size. I also wondered at the state of her lamb being dead for a week, thinking it would prob have started to decompose and may not smell the same.
We’ve popped her in with the ewe lambs on poor grass - not that I have much decent grass either  ::) - along with a yearling that we believe may have aborted as allegedly she scanned a single but she has zero udder and had had some bloody discharge back in January.
Next year Nanny will be top priority and no mistakes will be made.

 

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