[arobwk]

I thought the attached (linked) article was such an interesting take on the Russia/Ukraine situation and diplomatic moves that I just had to post it:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/lavrov-russia-diplomacy-ukraine/622075/?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

[arobwk]

And I would further offer this:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/defending-ukraine/622063/

[chrismahon]

From what I have seen on the news here, this particular area of Ukraine has always been disputed. I think it has assumed some strategic importance now because of oil and gas?


They interviewed an old dear living in the zone who said " I don't know what all the fuss is about? I've always considered myself Russian, so why am I now in Ukraine?"

[doganjo]

la la la la la la

My head is firmly in the sand. Donlt want to know if I'm about to be blown to smithereens

[macgro7]

From what I have seen on the news here, this particular area of Ukraine has always been disputed. I think it has assumed some strategic importance now because of oil and gas?


They interviewed an old dear living in the zone who said " I don't know what all the fuss is about? I've always considered myself Russian, so why am I now in Ukraine?"

Throughout the history (last 1000 years) there was no such thing as Ukraine. Well at least not as an independent country. Most of western Ukraine was region of Poland - Polish and Ukrainian speaking.
Parts of Eastern Ukraine was part of Russian Empire - Russian speaking.
Crimea and surrounding regions were Crimean Khanate - Turkic speaking.
After WW2 this was all made into Ukrainian Soviet Republic - part of the USSR.  In early 1990s it became independent Republic of Ukraine.
In 2014 the Crimean Peninsula, historically home of the Crimean Tatars (turkic speaking Muslims) was annexed by Russia. However most of residents of Crimea actually wanted it - most of them are ethnic Russians whose ancestors came their from Russia proper in 1930s - moved their by bolsheviks to repopulate lands stolen from Tatars who were forced to move to Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan in 1945. Crimean Tatars, who were allowed to return to Crimean in 1970s (I.e. After 30 years in desserts of Central Asia!) Were obviously wary of being part of Russia again.

Eastern Ukraine is similar story. Most people there are ethnic Russians who speak Russian as their first language - many of whom want to be part of Russia.

[macgro7]

They interviewed an old dear living in the zone who said " I don't know what all the fuss is about? I've always considered myself Russian, so why am I now in Ukraine?"

Exactly what I meant.

Western Ukraine, on the other hand is mostly inhabited by Ukrainians (Or Ruthenians) as well as many Poles. In fact Polish is still one of the official languages of Ukraine (and Belarus and Lithuania)

[arobwk]

Thanks for your informative posts [member=156019]macgro7[/member] - very interesting.  European history has never been very familiar to me:  I blame my old history teacher (I won't mention her name as she might just still be alive, but her teaching method was cr*p and so I thought history was cr*p/boring).  My more recent interest in European history has been further stimulated by your remarks and I've been doing rather more research already!

[chrismahon]

There seems to be a rush of bans on Russian athletes competing in European events on French TV at the moment. The French volleyball team won't play, but they lost to Russia last time anyway. Norway won't have Russian competitors, but the example they showed was Russia winning again.


In the meantime I am of the opinion that supplying arms to Ukraine is just extending the bloodshed and destruction there and is a very bad move indeed. Germany should know better, as 60% of their gas is imported from Russia. France is also supplying arms and accepts that, because they import 17% of their gas, the retail price here is likely to rise by 50%, so that will see it doubled in 12 months. I know the UK imports about half, but don't know where it comes from?


That was a very informative post [member=156019]macgro7[/member] . Like Arowbwk, my knowledge of European history is terrible. There have been several news reports here showing the recent evolution of the Russian borders. Appears it used to divide what is now Turkey, so what happens there?

[doganjo]

There seems to be a rush of bans on Russian athletes competing in European events on French TV at the moment. The French volleyball team won't play, but they lost to Russia last time anyway. Norway won't have Russian competitors, but the example they showed was Russia winning again.

In the meantime I am of the opinion that supplying arms to Ukraine is just extending the bloodshed and destruction there and is a very bad move indeed. Germany should know better, as 60% of their gas is imported from Russia. France is also supplying arms and accepts that, because they import 17% of their gas, the retail price here is likely to rise by 50%, so that will see it doubled in 12 months. I know the UK imports about half, but don't know where it comes from?

That was a very informative post [member=156019]macgro7[/member] . Like Arowbwk, my knowledge of European history is terrible. There have been several news reports here showing the recent evolution of the Russian borders. Appears it used to divide what is now Turkey, so what happens there?

Russia winning again. - With the aid of drugs?

Price rises - many people are prepared to accept a lifestyle change to save lives. As I am.

A young soldier blew up a bridge to delay the Russians - and died doing it

Putin wants to get back what has been lost from USSR - and Ukraine is extremely rich in minerals - win win for him.

Let's hope he can be removed

[Rosemary]

On the plus side, Scotland get a bye in the World Cup playoff semifinals and we, the people, may yet own Chelsea FC 

[SallyintNorth]

There seems to be a rush of bans on Russian athletes competing in European events on French TV at the moment. The French volleyball team won't play, but they lost to Russia last time anyway. Norway won't have Russian competitors, but the example they showed was Russia winning again.

With the aid of drugs?

In the meantime I am of the opinion that supplying arms to Ukraine is just extending the bloodshed and destruction there and is a very bad move indeed. Germany should know better, as 60% of their gas is imported from Russia. France is also supplying arms and accepts that, because they import 17% of their gas, the retail price here is likely to rise by 50%, so that will see it doubled in 12 months. I know the UK imports about half, but don't know where it comes from?

And they are prepared to accept a lifestyle change to save lives. As I am


That was a very informative post [member=156019]macgro7[/member] . Like Arowbwk, my knowledge of European history is terrible. There have been several news reports here showing the recent evolution of the Russian borders. Appears it used to divide what is now Turkey, so what happens there?

Putin wants to get back what ahs been lost from USSR - and Ukraine is extremely rich in minerals - win win fro him.  Let's hope he can be removed

Please fix the formatting, [member=26320]doganjo[/member], I can't read your comments at all

[doganjo]

I'll try but not sure how that's why I put it in emboldened red

[chrismahon]

Well, whist you get the formatting legible [member=26320]doganjo[/member] we've filled the van and car tanks and are now trying to get a heating oil delivery. No panics at the pumps yet here, but based on history that will happen. Prices will only go up, so buy now if you can.


This is a terrible event, but I can't help thinking something sinister is going on behind the scenes. French film footage showed the Ukrainian government burning huge piles of documents. Question is why? What are they hiding? I can't help feeling that both Ukraine and Russia know something that neither want to share. Perhaps I've seen 'Conspiracy Theory' too many times?

[macgro7]

The other day a litre of petrol cost around £1 in Poland. The same day at 3pm the prices went up to around £1.30
In half a day!!!

Liz Truss said "she will support the Britons who want to fight in Ukraine" 
I'm sorry but how is this different to Britons wanting to fight in Syria or other places? They were classed as terrorists while people going to Ukraine are supposed to be heroes???
Why would anyone want to go and fight in someone else's war anyway? If you get killed or hurt, what is it for???
Ridiculous

[Fleecewife]

There have always been mercenaries who fight in every war for money.