[Fleecewife]

Best option  .  I hope you find your true place soon

[doganjo]

....... unless you can get perfectly reasonable assurances from the seller.

Remember, they need you as much as you need them. If they really do have nothing to hide, they should be reasonable with you, since if you walk away, the next person will only raise the same issues.

I think your lawyer needs to point this out to them.  That this clause will ring alarm bells with anyone else trying to buy the property

[Citrine]

I think your lawyer needs to point this out to them.  That this clause will ring alarm bells with anyone else trying to buy the property

My solicitor didn't mention it to me... I only found it because I actually read the paperwork

[Rupert the bear]

A brave and in my view correct decision

[arobwk]

Seems a shame [member=178404]Citrine[/member] that you have to walk away from this property.  Also a shame vendor (@ their solicitor) not being very "helpful".  Last thought:  is your acting solicitor local to the area where the property is for sale ?  If not, I'd contact a local practice or insist on your conveyance being transferred to a local office (if company have regional offices) and see whether they are more understanding/useful in sorting out what "that clause" might mean and why vendor requires it.

[doganjo]

I think your lawyer needs to point this out to them.  That this clause will ring alarm bells with anyone else trying to buy the property

My solicitor didn't mention it to me... I only found it because I actually read the paperwork

Perhaps you need a better lawyer then 

[SallyintNorth]

I'd be very surprised if it isn't just intended as a "townie" clause, to protect the vendor from complaints (and possibly obstruction) about noise, smells, mud on road, etc.  But I too would not be comfortable with that wording.

Conveyancers can be pretty lazy, and solicitors often use junior staff for run-of-the-mill stuff and don't always check their work...  So good for you , reading it through yourself as well, and spotting this.  If the solicitor you're using is not used to agricultural holdings, I suggest you find one which is, and even better if in the area you are moving to, as there could be local practises it would be helpful to be aware of.

If it were me, I think I would have tried having a conversation with the seller to understand their need, explained my concerns about the wording as it stands, and then hopefully jointly got the two sets of solicitors to work on finding wording that meets the needs of both parties. 

Often in a purchase, the seller has no interest in preserving a good relationship with the buyer, as they will probably never meet again.   But in this case, you will become neighbours, so one would hope and expect that the seller would be willing to help resolve this or any other matter through conversation initially, so that solicitors can then be instructed to scribe something that meets everyone's needs.

[Citrine]

I'd be very surprised if it isn't just intended as a "townie" clause, to protect the vendor from complaints (and possibly obstruction) about noise, smells, mud on road, etc.  But I too would not be comfortable with that wording.

It was the vendor who showed us around and we explained that I had working collies and wanted the land for sheep so this shouldn't have been an issue


If it were me, I think I would have tried having a conversation with the seller to understand their need, explained my concerns about the wording as it stands, and then hopefully jointly got the two sets of solicitors to work on finding wording that meets the needs of both parties. 

We did stress that we were unhappy with the clause so they kindly changed the word 'use' to 'enjoyment' which actually didn't help much!

Often in a purchase, the seller has no interest in preserving a good relationship with the buyer, as they will probably never meet again.   But in this case, you will become neighbours, so one would hope and expect that the seller would be willing to help resolve this or any other matter through conversation initially, so that solicitors can then be instructed to scribe something that meets everyone's needs.

Yes, that's what I would have expected. Such a clause seems a really poor start to what I hoped would be a mutually respectful and cordial relationship!

[doganjo]

Good neighbours are a blessing - these don't sound very accommodating nor friendly so unless you are extremely keen on this property I'd walk away I'm afraid

[landroverroy]

Your question was " would it stop you buying the property?"


Answer - "Not necessarily".


I believe, as mentioned, they are frightened you are going to complain about them doing normal farming things like turning up at the land at midnight to check stock, noises of cockerels crowing, cows mooing, smell of muck heap  etc.


But in fact a covenant on land does not remove your right to complain if the nuisance is excessive. I think it's good they have changed the wording to "enjoyment."


As said above - your solicitor is less than helpful and should have explained that the clause is irrelevant to planning or environmental health issues (the main causes of complaint) and could not be enforced without your neighbours taking legal action themselves  - which is unlikely.


If it were me, and this appears to be the perfect place, in a market where perfect affordable places are like hens teeth, then I would certainly not give up so easily. The single most important thing to do now is to communicate. Go and talk to the vendors. They want to sell - you want to buy - for heavens sake just explain your fears to them and listen to theirs, and come to a compromise.


But finally - also talk to your solicitor and get him to explain just how difficult and expensive it would be for the vendors to actually enforce this clause. It does not override the law of the  land  and I believe has maybe just been added to persuade you (as an unknown commodity) to think twice before complaining about any of their actions.

[Fleecewife]

You really wouldn't believe some of the types we get where I live, noise complaints over church bells (that were there long before they moved in!), complaints to council over horse poo on roads, complaints about meeting tractors on narrow country lanes and complaints about mud on the roads from tractors working the fields etc all from townies. If they don't like the country then stay in the city! Some just don't want to get any dirt on their range rover "sports" status wagons that have never even seen a verge let alone been off road lol, but I digress.

The thing with mud on the road is that it can be lethal for motor cyclists and dangerous for car drivers too.  I was on the receiving end of a mud on the road disaster as a pillion many years ago and was left with a potentially life changing injury - luckily for me I recovered ok.  When I was growing up, a farmer's daughter, it was illegal for farmers to leave mud on the road. Several times our local Bobby would pedal his way up the hill to make sure we swept up any mud left.  My father had a short temper so you can perhaps imagine the fury when he had to do it because all the men had gone home!  I don't know what has happened to that law, it may still be in place, and it could be that accidents caused by mud on the road will be traced back to the guilty party.  So, no it's not just 'townies' who object to that particular offence and there is a good reason for it.

[Goatherd]

There dosn't seem to be a mention of the size of the land Do they want to keep a few pigs or carry on growing 50 acres of corn.  a few years ago some Londoners moved into my friends village and with in short time the church bell could not be rang on Sundays it woke them And another lot moved into a barn conversion and tried to stop farmer from earley morning milking.So go ask what are they save gaurding.Most farmers like to chat or grumble about weather.

[arobwk]

Seen you've already walked away now, but just to add my 2p, I see this as fairly normal for a rural property nowadays. In effect they're saying they want to carry out their farming duties unhindered without some new "townie" moving in and saying they don't like muddy tractors around or complaining on grounds of noise etc. It's to protect themselves from any future litigation/interference with operating their business, I wouldn't be at all worried about it, it's a sign of the times unfortunately. That said some people would be worried about it and the right thing to do for them is to walk away, as you have done.

You really wouldn't believe some of the types we get where I live, noise complaints over church bells (that were there long before they moved in!), complaints to council over horse poo on roads, complaints about meeting tractors on narrow country lanes and complaints about mud on the roads from tractors working the fields etc all from townies. If they don't like the country then stay in the city! Some just don't want to get any dirt on their range rover "sports" status wagons that have never even seen a verge let alone been off road lol, but I digress.

Really !  And where, actually, do you live [member=26375]SmallholdingForSale[/member] ?

[ For others: to note that, while SmallholdingForSale cannot delete this thread, he/she has already deleted his/her thread (after being challenged) that had sought interest in 2ac of agri' land in Cornwall for £200k (obviously ridiculous) !! 
Unless SmallholdingForSale comes up with a defence, I suggest we all ignore any further scammy/dodgy posts by said member. ]   

[arobwk]

Seen you've already walked away now, but just to add my 2p, I see this as fairly normal for a rural property nowadays. In effect they're saying they want to carry out their farming duties unhindered without some new "townie" moving in and saying they don't like muddy tractors around or complaining on grounds of noise etc. It's to protect themselves from any future litigation/interference with operating their business, I wouldn't be at all worried about it, it's a sign of the times unfortunately. That said some people would be worried about it and the right thing to do for them is to walk away, as you have done.

You really wouldn't believe some of the types we get where I live, noise complaints over church bells (that were there long before they moved in!), complaints to council over horse poo on roads, complaints about meeting tractors on narrow country lanes and complaints about mud on the roads from tractors working the fields etc all from townies. If they don't like the country then stay in the city! Some just don't want to get any dirt on their range rover "sports" status wagons that have never even seen a verge let alone been off road lol, but I digress.

Really !  And where, actually, do you live [member=26375]SmallholdingForSale[/member] ?

[ For others: to note that, while SmallholdingForSale cannot delete this thread, he/she has already deleted his/her thread (after being challenged) that had sought interest in 2ac of agri' land in Cornwall for £200k (obviously ridiculous) !! 
Unless SmallholdingForSale comes up with a defence, I suggest we all ignore any further scammy/dodgy posts by said member. ]   

And now I see that SmallholdingForSale has also removed their post (that I quoted above) from this thread.  (Of course SmallholdingForSale cannot delete my quote).  Hopefully that means "bye bye" [member=26375]SmallholdingForSale[/member].

[harmony]

Seen you've already walked away now, but just to add my 2p, I see this as fairly normal for a rural property nowadays. In effect they're saying they want to carry out their farming duties unhindered without some new "townie" moving in and saying they don't like muddy tractors around or complaining on grounds of noise etc. It's to protect themselves from any future litigation/interference with operating their business, I wouldn't be at all worried about it, it's a sign of the times unfortunately. That said some people would be worried about it and the right thing to do for them is to walk away, as you have done.

You really wouldn't believe some of the types we get where I live, noise complaints over church bells (that were there long before they moved in!), complaints to council over horse poo on roads, complaints about meeting tractors on narrow country lanes and complaints about mud on the roads from tractors working the fields etc all from townies. If they don't like the country then stay in the city! Some just don't want to get any dirt on their range rover "sports" status wagons that have never even seen a verge let alone been off road lol, but I digress.

Really !  And where, actually, do you live [member=26375]SmallholdingForSale[/member] ?

[ For others: to note that, while SmallholdingForSale cannot delete this thread, he/she has already deleted his/her thread (after being challenged) that had sought interest in 2ac of agri' land in Cornwall for £200k (obviously ridiculous) !! 
Unless SmallholdingForSale comes up with a defence, I suggest we all ignore any further scammy/dodgy posts by said member. ]   

And now I see that SmallholdingForSale has also removed their post (that I quoted above) from this thread.  (Of course SmallholdingForSale cannot delete my quote).  Hopefully that means "bye bye" [member=26375]SmallholdingForSale[/member].

You have sort of lost me arobwk with this. I'm not sure why you think SmallholdingForSale are scammy/dodgy? Their comment (now deleted) seemed a reasonable summing up of the issues rural communities experience when people move in from the towns.  The church bells scenario happened in our next village and I have problems with visitors and newer residents not wanting to reverse on a single track lane I keep sheep on. Once someone rang a farmer after he had been muck spreading to ask him what he was going to do about the smell?


Recently a piece of agricultural land sold here at £310k for a plot just shy of 3 acres. It has no house, little chance of getting one but it did have lake frontage although it is straight into an important reed bed and being the bottom end of the lake spends is flooded in the bottom section most of the time.


Do you not think you may have been a little unfair and possibly policed out a new member?