Author Topic: Ram too old?  (Read 3943 times)

BlitheringIdiot

  • Joined Nov 2017
Ram too old?
« on: August 25, 2021, 08:11:50 am »
Morning all. I have a small flock of six shearling ewes that are being sponged at the end of September to try and keep the lambing window as narrow as possible. I have my eye on a relatively cheap ram who is 5.5 years old, and has been fertile in previous years by all accounts. Slightly concerned about his age though. Has anyone used a ram this old and was it a successful experience?

twizzel

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Ram too old?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2021, 08:27:32 am »
It’s a risk, you could always have the vet do a fertility test on him for peace of mind. One of my rams is 6 and fit as a fiddle though he only has a handful of ewes each year.

BlitheringIdiot

  • Joined Nov 2017
Re: Ram too old?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2021, 08:34:52 am »
Good point, thanks Twizzel. A cost in time and money to factor into his “cheapness”

twizzel

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Ram too old?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2021, 08:44:37 am »
It depends how long you want to keep him for too, and how cheap he is. Are you better off investing in a younger ram and getting a good few years out of him?  :thinking: 

BlitheringIdiot

  • Joined Nov 2017
Re: Ram too old?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2021, 08:48:54 am »
Really only looking to keep for a matter of weeks. Would prefer to hire a ram but getting what you want when you want becomes a bit trickier. Last lambing I did was 2020 - bought a 4 yo Suffolk and then sold him as a cull at market at a £10 loss, which I was quite pleased with.

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: Ram too old?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2021, 10:31:07 am »
If you're lambing any time soon, you can buy a shearling, or well grown ram lamb - use him and sell him for at least what you paid, to someone that's not putting the tup in till later. You will know if he's fertile by seeing if your sheep come back in heat 3 weeks later.
I personally wouldn't go for the older one, but that's just personal preference because I feel mean selling older animals for meat.  5 isn't all that old in the way of things. If he's really well shaped and only going for meat prices, then you could get some decent lambs at little cost.


I've just had someone ring me to see if I had any Hereford bulls for sale. He bought the last one off me 11 years ago. The bull's now 13 years old and he's decided to retire him!
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 10:34:09 am by landroverroy »
Rules are made:
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  and the obedience of fools.

BlitheringIdiot

  • Joined Nov 2017
Re: Ram too old?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2021, 10:44:21 am »
Sounds like good advice, thank you!

shep53

  • Joined Jan 2011
  • Dumfries & Galloway
Re: Ram too old?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2021, 11:34:35 am »
At Lairg or Dingwall 4sh ( 5.5yrs ) or even the odd 5sh hill northie proven stock rams are often sold  at  big money and will serve more than 6 ewes

silkwoodzwartbles

  • Joined Apr 2016
Re: Ram too old?
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2021, 12:54:27 pm »
If you like him, buy him :thumbsup: The breeder I got some of my best ewes from is still running their father - now 6 years old and serving a lot more than 6 ewes!

Buttermilk

  • Joined Jul 2014
Re: Ram too old?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2021, 08:10:41 pm »
I have just sold a 6.5 year old ram at the mart and he topped the day, the 2 yr old ram at the same sale went for £20 less.

BlitheringIdiot

  • Joined Nov 2017
Re: Ram too old?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2021, 09:34:15 pm »
Thank you everyone for your replies. He’s  cheap, local and available so I’ve agreed to buy him and pick him up next week. I’m thinking six ewes should be more than manageable for a gentleman of his experience and stature, and I’ll know after 3 weeks whether he’s still up to it.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Ram too old?
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2021, 09:46:52 am »
Good decision :thumbsup:, hope he works out for you :fc:

For others reading this thread...

Thinking about it... Good tups will usually have just a few ladies to learn their job at <1 year old.  Then will tup at that farm or their first proper working home for one or two years (1) in a fast-maturing breed, 2 or 3 years in a slow-maturing breed, or as long as you like on a farm which is using a terminal sire on ewes of a different breed (so him coming back onto his daughters is never an issue.)

If he is leaving a pedigree breeder, or a farmer who breeds his or her own replacements using that breed, at 4 or older (and he didn't come to them as an aged tup), you can be pretty sure he has been an excellent tup for them, because it has been worth the effort for them to do the juggling daughters and not-daughters for quite a few years.

So, in assessing an aged tup, chatting to the seller can give you a lot of information about him.


(1) Of course some breeders can manage the juggling of daughters and not-daughters for longer, but the easiest option is to move him on once his daughters are going to the tup. 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Ram too old?
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2021, 10:03:12 am »
Ex-BH and myself have both had good experiences with buying aged tups.  The first one he bought was a previous champion and top-priced shearling tup of the year of the breed, and was for sale at 3 years old, having improved the breeding flock at his then buyer's home but still having some great genes to pass on.  (We weren't breeding pedigree Charolais but we wanted to try a Charolais tup on our Texel cross commercial ewes.)  We paid as much for Perry as we would have paid for a near-the-top-price shearling tup of our usual type, but it was a great decision.  We worked him for 4 years; his daughters were very easy to pick out so it was not difficult to put them to other tups, until they started to be quite a large proportion of the flock, plus we by then had some granddaughters, which weren't quite so easy to be sure of by eye.

With his stamp on the breeding ewes and the fat lambs, our grades for lambs went up by one or two points, and they matured on average 2 weeks earlier, which meant more away while prices were higher earlier in the season, and to the better-paying markets, plus we were getting a good 60% of our fat lambs into the "bonus box" (where you would get approx an extra £3/head for producing the lambs the buyer most wanted) as opposed to around 20-30% previously.  (When I wax lyricial about Charolais for breeding fat lambs and commercial ewes, this is why!)

Ex-BH was very fond of Perry.  Not just the impact he had had on our flock and bottom line, but he was also an utter pleasure to own; you could literally walk up to him in the field and tip him up to do his feet!   When Perry finally had to go, we bought a tup lamb from the same breeder who had sold us Perry.  Perry was Fred's great-grandfather, and Fred also went on to produce many fat cracking lambs for us.  We didn't keep any of his daughters for the first few years, so that we could use him for longer.  (Plus, we didn't want the ewes to be more than 50% Charolais on our farm with our climate.  They are a thinner-skinned, less hardy animal than the Texel.)

Sorry, got a bit carried away...  but that was all just to say, buying the right aged tup can be an excellent choice, and repay you what you paid for him several times over.

Perry would have worked to 6 or 7 years old, and was on what was a fairly hard farm for him, with 30-50 ewes at a time.


My own current tup was bought at 3 years old for meat price.  He will be tupping for us for the 3rd time this time, and will stay here as long as he is working and fit and happy.  I am keeping some daughters from last and this year, and I will be putting them back to their Dad when the time comes - but I won't keep any of their offspring for breeding back to their dad/grandfather.  (And wouldn't sell any for breeding either, not that I sell breeding sheep - or indeed, any sheep - very often these days.  It's a meat-and-fleece flock just for us, and tiny compared to the commercial flocks I had in the north of England.)
« Last Edit: August 26, 2021, 10:08:36 am by SallyintNorth »
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

eryl

  • Joined Apr 2020
Re: Ram too old?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2021, 05:29:46 pm »
no thats not too old. if you're worried, take 3 sponges out one day and 3 24 hours later - cut down his workload a bit.

 

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