[PipKelpy]

Knickers!!!

The wretch was done 8th of Feb. She and Mary, to annoy me MUST have similar cycles as there was blood on Mary's mat that day!

They are currently head to tail, K has stood when M jumped, but M shook her off when K tried it earlier!

Who is coming on??

I can book AI for tomorrow (spoke to him yesterday) but is K on? Or just playing the part? Can she be re AI'd just in case? Bearing in mind an examination could disrupt a developing fetus and vets can't read below 28 days (I was previously told!)

These girls are enough to drive me crazy!!

Am hoping it's Mary!

Can't get any closer, head is Mary!

[SallyintNorth]

It's a bit of an art, but here are the rules of thumb that I use :

- the one who stands while another animal jumps on her is the one that's bulling
- the one who is jumping on others is not bulling unless you see her stand for another animal
- blood on underside of the tail or below / coming out of the vulva is usually 24-48 hours after bulling
- clean slime is more likely to be an animal that's bulling today
- the vulva may be a bit puffy when she's bulling - get to know what's normal for your cows' intimate parts!!
- a cow that's bulling will probably be lovey-dovey with you too, and will probably stand for you, arching her back and lifting her tail, if you fondle her around the tail head / vulva.
- the one that's bulling may also feel a bit hot - but then sometimes they are all hot because of all the activity
- if your cow is in milk, she may have a sharp downturn in milk on the day she is bulling - but they don't all

If Knickers is standing for Mary today, I would definitely serve Knickers again.  Cycles can in theory be 19 days but all of ours over the years have been 20 or 21 days, so on probability, she was served a bit too soon last time.  she holds this time!

[PipKelpy]

Don't bet on not being on last time!! She was examined and slimey!! 5 times she was done last year, each time examined! Mum has said walk her round to the bull (one next door!).

I will phone Ai and book him for 2Moro and have him check Mary!

Yes, Knickers is lovey dovey! Although fully grown she'll do me an injury if jumps (was 6 month old last time she jumped on me, bloody hurt, I was seeing to a sheep at the time!)

Will ask about bull. I can't shout at her, it's the eye lashes, the "you adore me look" and the head in the air so her chin can be scratched!

Also, no swelling or puffiness and ALWAYS likes her butt scratched. Scratch inside her leg and she lifts it up..... She's a floozy! She's spoilt and she knows it!

[SallyintNorth]

Mum is right.  You could have bought a bull for what you've spent on AI so far...  Some cows are just hard to catch just right, so after 6 attempts it would be worth letting the Real Deal have a shot at it.  Some cows just don't get in calf... if the bull can't do it, she may be one of those.

What condition is she carrying?  Spoiled cattle can be a little portly...  And that would make conception very much less likely. 

[PipKelpy]

Condition, she's fine. Not fat, not thin. She fed Edward to over a year old and slummed it outside on haylage fed daily. I put it in the cratches so that sheep got a chance. Both she and Jennifer were cycling regularly. I hope she's not one of those that thinks 1 calf is enough. Running her empty 1 winter is a oneoff! Bull wise, we were spoilt with our William. You take for granted a quiet bull who is fairly content with a few cows and then  "holidays" a few fields away every year. But that was before pre TB, standstill etc times have changed.

[twizzel]

The other option is get the vet to scan her and make sure she's not got a cyst or something that would prevent her holding a pregnancy. We had a cow bulling every 3 weeks, you could put money on it. Vet said she probably had a cyst and although treatable would need vet visits to get her in calf so we culled her as she was older and had lost a lot of time (10 months after calving she was still empty).


Or buy a bull, AI timings can be very difficult. But seems pointless to keep serving her with AI if she's not holding.

[Backinwellies]

The other option is get the vet to scan her and make sure she's not got a cyst or something that would prevent her holding a pregnancy. We had a cow bulling every 3 weeks, you could put money on it. Vet said she probably had a cyst and although treatable would need vet visits to get her in calf so we culled her as she was older and had lost a lot of time (10 months after calving she was still empty).


Or buy a bull, AI timings can be very difficult. But seems pointless to keep serving her with AI if she's not holding.

I worked on dairy farm .... cysts are not uncommon .... a quick vet trip and sorted ..... not a reason for culling in my opinion unless you have other reasons. 

The ONLY definite sign a cow is bulling is when she stands for another cow to ride her ..  if seen in eve AI next morning ... if seen early morn AI that day (and if still bulling in eve AI next day too). 

Mark a calender when you see cow bulling ... keep close eye 19 to 22 days later for bulling. 

[twizzel]

The other option is get the vet to scan her and make sure she's not got a cyst or something that would prevent her holding a pregnancy. We had a cow bulling every 3 weeks, you could put money on it. Vet said she probably had a cyst and although treatable would need vet visits to get her in calf so we culled her as she was older and had lost a lot of time (10 months after calving she was still empty).


Or buy a bull, AI timings can be very difficult. But seems pointless to keep serving her with AI if she's not holding.

I worked on dairy farm .... cysts are not uncommon .... a quick vet trip and sorted ..... not a reason for culling in my opinion unless you have other reasons. 

The ONLY definite sign a cow is bulling is when she stands for another cow to ride her ..  if seen in eve AI next morning ... if seen early morn AI that day (and if still bulling in eve AI next day too). 

Mark a calender when you see cow bulling ... keep close eye 19 to 22 days later for bulling.

Agree but when the cow is getting on in age, has lost nearly a year and won't give you a calf for another 9 months at least, in a commercial operation it's time to go.

[PipKelpy]

Timing is everything!

No blood on either mat, phone call to chap who buys my cattle, he's just had a tb test! Knickers had fun this morning!

We've got him for up to the 8 week shut off he says. I forgot how big bulls go, makes my 2 look tiny! Last time bull here was 2007.

I had knickers scanned many times last year, all clear. As said before, timing is everything, weather given good round here for the next week so cattle can stay out at night (they've been coming in.)

I'm not daft, I know if she doesn't hold to a bull she is probably one of "those", but I was hoping she'd wait until she was older before she became an awkward madam!

Oh, 1st thing he said when he dropped lad off? "Are your fences good?' Not what you want to hear. However, he's on 2 internal fields that are open and NO cattle around us as closest farming neighbour actually winter houses his due to the numbers!

[Rosemary]

Good luck! The bullwill know just the right time.  For calves in nine / ten months.