Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: To register only part of our land as a small holding.  (Read 694 times)

Ghdp

  • Joined Aug 2014
  • Conwy
To register only part of our land as a small holding.
« on: January 08, 2021, 06:02:59 pm »
Since we have been here in North Wales we have concentrated on renovating our house and getting the holiday accommodation up and running ( in the days when we could all go on holiday ??) We have also concentrated on growing stuff to eat and keeping chickens.

The next step would be to keep some sheep. We do have 3 separate parcels of land within the area bought with the house and contained within the same title deeds (some further 2.75 acres or thereabouts) which we have let our neighbour graze sheep on a ‘mutual benefit basis’ as his sheep wander through to our land from ‘next door’ through gateways.

 We with full support of and the promise of help from our neighbour are now thinking about having a very small flock of sheep (3-5) on some or all of this.

A quandary is this. Previously this whole site had been a registered as a small holding with sheep, goats and a tiny market garden. Because a previous owner had trouble selling on the basis domestic mortgages were not readily available on a small holding they simply deregistered it. Is that right? Has anyone else found that a problem?

Our place has not been sold since as anything more than a house with grazing for a pony or two since deregistration .

We don’t want to find that enthusiasm for a few sheep and the need for a parish holding number  creates a problem if we want to sell.

Conveniently the land divides into house and garden area, holiday lodge and garden area and the 2.75 acres in three small enclosures

Is it possible to register a small holding on the 2.75 acres only. It is not beyond the realms of possibilities that we eventually move locally but would want to keep back some land to enjoy if from a short distance away.

Bit of a rambling post but any thoughts.

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: To register only part of our land as a small holding.
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2021, 06:43:16 pm »
Yes you are right - it's difficult to get a domestic mortgage on agricultural land. But you can still reregister it as a smallholding, and then split it again for resale and sell it as "house with pony paddock and additional land available by negotiation." You see lots of places advertised as such.
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
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Re: To register only part of our land as a small holding.
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2021, 11:44:35 am »
Perhaps it might be worth splitting the land now?  You don't need a house on land for it to get a CPH
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Ghdp

  • Joined Aug 2014
  • Conwy
Re: To register only part of our land as a small holding.
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2021, 01:50:01 pm »
Perhaps it might be worth splitting the land now?  You don't need a house on land for it to get a CPH
That was what I was wondering. So I don’t need the house on it. It makes sense to me if possible to have a ‘house and pony paddock’ plus a registered  small holding adjoining as it would have its own access.

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
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Re: To register only part of our land as a small holding.
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2021, 12:41:21 pm »
You'll need a land surveyor to measure it up and draw up plan/map for the Land Registry, and a lawyer to do title deeds. But it should enhance the value of both properties
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: To register only part of our land as a small holding.
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2021, 02:26:42 am »
On rethinking your post, I would have thought it highly unlikely that the fact your house had 2.75 acres with it would have a negative effect on the sale. There is always someone on here looking for a smallholding and on land/property sites they are very sought after. I would have thought it more likely that the previous sale attracted a lot of people who wanted a smallholding but couldn't get a mortgage simply because they couldn't afford it. You get a lot of dreamers. The other possibility is that the house was just overpriced and didn't come up to the mortgage company's valuation.
I personally don't see any advantage in splitting the title now. You can do it later if things change. 
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

Backinwellies

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  • Joined Sep 2012
  • Llandeilo Carmarthenshire
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Re: To register only part of our land as a small holding.
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2021, 07:39:09 am »
I dont see the issue .... just because it is one smallholding now doesnt mean you couldnt sell it in different lots anyway.     
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Black Sheep

  • Joined Sep 2015
  • Briercliffe
    • Monk Hall Farm
Re: To register only part of our land as a small holding.
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2021, 08:37:21 am »
My recollection is that it is the amount of land that may limit mortgage choices, not the existence of a CPH. Many standard providers have a clause that limits the area they will allow within a standard residential mortgage package.  Often its 5-10 acres but you can trawl through a few websites and find out fairly easily. I don't recall anything saying they wouldn't lend on a property with a CPH - after all you can get them for a high rise flat.

We came across this issue when buying our place and to get round it asked our solicitor to make the purchase arrangements so that the title was split during the purchase meaning we paid cash for the land and got a mortgage on the house plot. This worked fine and we had no issues.

So, unless you have more than the lower limit you find in mortgage lenders' terms (probably 5 acres) it won't actually be an issue. If you do then you can do the whole splitting of the title at the time of sale (and at the buyer's expense if they need it to happen).

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
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Re: To register only part of our land as a small holding.
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2021, 11:36:41 am »
Remember this isn't just a smallholding - it also has holiday lets, which makes it a business.  Therefore a business mortgage/loan may be required regardless of the amount of land.

Things have changed a lot since 1994 when we bought a run down farmhouse with 24 acres and got a mortgage  for just short of half the price we paid with no problem at all.  The lender knew that my husband was near retirement (5 years ahead) and was going to pay it off at that point but it was a full 15 year term, and there were no guarantees given.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

 

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