Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.  (Read 2677 times)

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
« Reply #60 on: June 26, 2020, 08:44:11 am »
Wales seem to be sticking to the 2m rule .......so far anyway!

Because, here's the thing, it's not a rule - it's a risk-based continuum. If you spend one second twenty metres away from me, your risk of contracting CV from me is miniscule. However, if we spend hours cuddling, I'm almost certain to give it to you.

Quote
The risk of coronavirus infection when people stand more than a metre away from the infected individual was found to be 3 per cent, and 13 per cent if within a metre.

However, according to the analysis published in The Lancet, modelling suggests for every extra metre further away up to three metres, the risk of infection or transmission may halve.

Ideally the government would publish a three dimensional graph to explain this. Possibly a surface plot or a colour coded risk matrix:



But of course they can't, can they? So, the best they can do really is to decide a trade-off between virus transmission and for example restaurants being able to make a profit, and go from there.

The issue with that of course is firstly the message gets simplified down to "1 metre" or "2 metres", and then people are muppets anyway and go to the beach in their thousands because nobody has communicated that the biggest risk factor is not really the distance you're at, but the number of different people you are in contact with over time.

The only thing we can do personally is to stay within the published rules and then calibrate our own risk matrices on top of that according to our own health situations, etc. Within health and safety, we aim to reduce risk to "as low as reasonably practicable". That's not the same as "as low as possible", but instead says "firstly follow recognised good practice, and then on top of that make a balanced judgement on how to reduce risk, taking into account the severity of the harm and the cost, time and hassle of risk reduction measures".

That's a sound principle to apply here also, don't you think?
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
« Reply #61 on: June 26, 2020, 08:54:14 am »
1 metre + .... any suggestions ?

I have no idea about it - up here we are sticking with 2 metres distance, and I take that as an absolute minimum.
Friends visited me today and asked me to move closer than the 3 and a half metres i'd set the seats at - so they didn't have to shout - I moved half a metre  :roflanim: :roflanim:  Maybe they'll say I'm paranoid but hey, do I care?  :innocent:


No shouting - projects virus further.

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
« Reply #62 on: June 26, 2020, 11:44:35 am »
1 metre + .... any suggestions ?

I have no idea about it - up here we are sticking with 2 metres distance, and I take that as an absolute minimum.
Friends visited me today and asked me to move closer than the 3 and a half metres i'd set the seats at - so they didn't have to shout - I moved half a metre  :roflanim: :roflanim:  Maybe they'll say I'm paranoid but hey, do I care?  :innocent:


No shouting - projects virus further.
Yes I did mention that too.  My friend is very soft spoken and I am a little hard of hearing so i said 'say again' quite a few times  :innocent: :roflanim:
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • Wester Gladstone Hebridean Sheep
Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
« Reply #63 on: June 26, 2020, 12:04:21 pm »
Womble, that's a great explanation, well put. The Gov advice has to cover the LCD, but in fact a huge proportion of people are up to understanding a more in depth discussion than we are given credit for, and a better understanding usually leads to better compliance.
Those pictures from the beaches are infuriating and frightening.  When it boils down to it, we have to make our own decisions to secure our own best chance of survival, using the best information we can find. Good luck and good health to everyone  :hshoe: :sunshine:
www.scothebs.co.uk

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus - let sleeping dragons lie

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
« Reply #64 on: June 26, 2020, 12:37:03 pm »
Wales seem to be sticking to the 2m rule .......so far anyway!

Because, here's the thing, it's not a rule - it's a risk-based continuum. If you spend one second twenty metres away from me, your risk of contracting CV from me is miniscule. However, if we spend hours cuddling, I'm almost certain to give it to you.

Quote
The risk of coronavirus infection when people stand more than a metre away from the infected individual was found to be 3 per cent, and 13 per cent if within a metre.

However, according to the analysis published in The Lancet, modelling suggests for every extra metre further away up to three metres, the risk of infection or transmission may halve.

Ideally the government would publish a three dimensional graph to explain this. Possibly a surface plot or a colour coded risk matrix:



But of course they can't, can they? So, the best they can do really is to decide a trade-off between virus transmission and for example restaurants being able to make a profit, and go from there.

The issue with that of course is firstly the message gets simplified down to "1 metre" or "2 metres", and then people are muppets anyway and go to the beach in their thousands because nobody has communicated that the biggest risk factor is not really the distance you're at, but the number of different people you are in contact with over time.

The only thing we can do personally is to stay within the published rules and then calibrate our own risk matrices on top of that according to our own health situations, etc. Within health and safety, we aim to reduce risk to "as low as reasonably practicable". That's not the same as "as low as possible", but instead says "firstly follow recognised good practice, and then on top of that make a balanced judgement on how to reduce risk, taking into account the severity of the harm and the cost, time and hassle of risk reduction measures".

That's a sound principle to apply here also, don't you think?
Only improvement on that floating chart woould be axis labels.  I think most peopel would then understand it.  It's just a preetty picture with numbers as it stands.  But I think it would definitely be useful
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
« Reply #65 on: June 26, 2020, 04:08:54 pm »
The beach pictures and this discussion put me in mind of people's behaviour in cars.

Some drive a safe distance from the car in front, but when they find that other people then drive into that space, they get into an "oh, no you don't" mindset, and end up driving closer to the car in front in order to not leave enough space for someone to drive into their "stopping distance gap". 

Some years ago, I decided that the intelligent response was to just keep dropping back, and back, and back.  "Winning" / "Not being taken for a mug", and being safe are mutually exclusive in this scenario, so I just allow myself a bit of feeling smug about making better choices, and don't fret about arriving 5 minutes later on a two hour journey...

So, if it were me arriving at Bournemouth beach to that, I would turn around and decide not to do the beach today.  And if I was on the beach and it became impossible to maintain even 1m distance, I would decide that that was the end of beach time today.

I do completely understand how people who have been locked down, and especially with kids under their feet 24x7 for the duration, really really want to get out and have some beach time, but my view is that we each are responsible for our own choices.  Mine is to keep myself safe and not put others at risk.  Others make different choices.

The NHS is now considerably better prepared than it was.  The disease and its treatments are better understood, the Nightingale field hospitals are equipped and ready.  This time of year there is less other pressure on the NHS, and less other flu/pneumonia type stuff circulating and exacerbating the COVID problems.  So, actually, allowing people who choose to take risks to cause a second wave is not an unintelligent choice, and probably won't result in more deaths than any other choice at this point, all things considered.  And perhaps it will be better to have the second wave now, before the next flu season... 

But, if you are vulnerable or feel so, for goodness sake take more precautions not less.  Good on you, Annie, stick to your 3m and no less!  And Fleecewife, stay out of stores and other high-risk places, please! 

I do utterly understand that the expected influx of tourists into Cornwall and other places is going to make it harder for folks like yourself, arobwk, to stay safe.  But we can take avoiding action : shop early in the morning, don't visit the popular beaches and cafes, etc.  Because there does come a point when keeping people caged up, preventing businesses from operating at all, not getting some semblance of self-determination back, would of itself start to be the bigger killer.  Less measurable, but equally deadly.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 04:10:30 pm by SallyintNorth »
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
« Reply #66 on: June 26, 2020, 04:14:53 pm »
^ No, that's not actually a real chart @doganjo  - it's just an example of a Matlab surface plot. However, because you're right - axes should always be properly labelled....
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
« Reply #67 on: June 26, 2020, 04:16:07 pm »
 :roflanim:
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • Wester Gladstone Hebridean Sheep
Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
« Reply #68 on: June 27, 2020, 12:41:05 am »
  And Fleecewife, stay out of stores and other high-risk places, please! 


The only risky place I've been was to collect the rescue dogs, and we were all in hazmat suits  :innocent: Otherwise I am totally isolated up here in my little wilderness.  Food is click and collect, anything else is mail order.  Everything that comes into the house from alien places is bleached or scrubbed - trust me, I'm a nurse  :farmer: :garden:
www.scothebs.co.uk

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus - let sleeping dragons lie

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
« Reply #69 on: June 27, 2020, 01:13:14 am »
Wait, what? 

The only risky place I've been was to collect the rescue dogs

Is there some news you should be telling us.. ?   :innocent:
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
« Reply #70 on: June 27, 2020, 10:06:56 am »
^ No, that's not actually a real chart @doganjo  - it's just an example of a Matlab surface plot. However, because you're right - axes should always be properly labelled....
  OK I get that the days can be ascertained and verified, and the miles too - but how do you calculate the stupidity of people?  Is there a mathematical formula that i missed when doing Higher Maths some years ago?  :eyelashes: :eyelashes: :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: :excited: :excited: :excited:
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
« Reply #71 on: June 27, 2020, 10:25:08 am »
That's the beauty of a surface plot Annie. If you know days and miles, you can read the stupidity quotient directly from the chart.
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • Wester Gladstone Hebridean Sheep
Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
« Reply #72 on: June 27, 2020, 11:54:06 am »
Wait, what? 

The only risky place I've been was to collect the rescue dogs

Is there some news you should be telling us.. ?   :innocent:

Yes  :yippee:  I'll post pics in a separate thread later of Mia and Sophie.  We had to rescue them as they had been incarcerated for nearly a year.  They are very happy now  8) :love: :love:
www.scothebs.co.uk

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus - let sleeping dragons lie

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow. Some say it's in England !
Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
« Reply #73 on: July 01, 2020, 06:10:04 pm »
Oh dear, 1st of July already.  Just 2 more days to do a big "that will do me for a while" shop with reasonable distancing measures still in place! 

macgro7

  • Joined Feb 2016
Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
« Reply #74 on: July 01, 2020, 07:49:56 pm »
Well, we had to close our shop again, I was there yesterday and one old guys started swearing at me because I told him we are closed and I'm not allow to let him in as we are in the lockdown zone again - I was dispatching online orders, so I'm allowed to sit in the shop with the shutter closed and door slightly open for fresh air!
Its so bad. We are OK but there are so many people who spend a lot of many to reopen again either last week or the coming weekend and now they are told they are not allowed to open again.
Its important to stay safe but a lot of people are going out of business!
Growing loads of fruits and vegetables! Raising dairy goats, chickens, ducks, geese rabbits and a little boy on 1/2 acre in the middle of the city of Leicester, using permaculture methods.

 

Electronics/fuel at a garage.........opinions sought please

Started by Izzy

Replies: 2
Views: 1137
Last post February 04, 2016, 12:06:48 am
by Izzy
IBCs for water storage.... And pumps

Started by escapedtothecountry

Replies: 5
Views: 1106
Last post April 24, 2013, 11:36:21 am
by Bodger
Rent of garage - how much?

Started by doganjo

Replies: 6
Views: 1804
Last post January 04, 2015, 05:58:04 pm
by bazzais
CSSA Social Meeting Stirling 17th November 7.30 pm

Started by Ayeskint

Replies: 19
Views: 4378
Last post November 18, 2010, 08:37:18 am
by Sandy
Fuel .....

Started by Roxy

Replies: 51
Views: 13287
Last post April 03, 2012, 03:10:47 pm
by sabrina

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Little Peckers

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2020. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS