The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: arobwk on June 07, 2020, 05:40:29 pm

Title: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: arobwk on June 07, 2020, 05:40:29 pm
I am not happy about social distancing (i.e. lack of measures) at vehicle fuelling outlets:  I have not come across a 'garage' forecourt yet where simultaneous use of both sides of double-sided pumps has been restricted!

A Sainsbury's assistant (on a forecourt without pay-at-pump facility as it happens) advised me that they "have permission" to continue to allow side by side fuel dispensing at double-sided pumps.  I checked the Sainsbury's website where they say they are following the social distancing rules (still 2m as far as I know) at their fuelling outlets - well, obviously they are not!  (I can't find a way of contacting them to clarify their position/question them.)

Nor are any other local outlets, that I've come across, restricting pump use:  they [size=78%]are all allowing fuelling from double-sided pump stations, which means many folk are standing nearby each other while fuelling their vehicles for many minutes with less than 2m between them (with or without a face mask - I've yet to see anyone mask-up for fuel to date).  [/size]

I asked someone today, who took up the opposite side of my pump with their fuel-cap next to the pump, whether they would mind waiting just a few minutes to refuel, to allow social distancing, as I was almost finished refuelling my car.  The response was  "No - I don't care!"  Yep, that is actually what he said and there was, as a result of the "I don't care" a very acrimonious verbal exchange between myself and the f*ing idiot.  (I regret to say that his children heard their father being called all sorts of things - I hadn't noticed, at first, that he had children on board and then that they had the car windows open - oops!)

Anybody have any thoughts on this generally and has anybody come across a forecourt that prevents side-by-side refuelling at a double-sided pump or might have installed extra shielding between each side of a double-sided pump station ??

In meantime, I have sent a request to my MP for clarification on any Gov' advice on this matter (as there is nothing on Gov web-sites) and I've suggested that there seems to have been an oversight as regards guidance about maintaining social distancing on 'garage' forecourts.


 >:(



Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: harmony on June 07, 2020, 07:43:08 pm

I haven't seen any restrictions.  Is it because when you are filling up you tend to be facing down the side of your vehicle with half an eye on the cost and half an eye on the fuel pump rather than facing directly across at someone?


Our local garage supplied gloves from the outset and are always disinfecting the pump handles.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: arobwk on June 07, 2020, 08:15:59 pm
And there's another thing - no gloves left at the pump and no disinfection of the pump areas what so ever!
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Womble on June 07, 2020, 08:25:14 pm
Just a thought - can you drive to the "wrong" side of the pump? That way you'd only have to be within 2m (not that there's anything magical about that distance of course) for a very brief time, which you could probably judge for when they're not there?
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: arobwk on June 07, 2020, 08:41:57 pm
Just a thought - can you drive to the "wrong" side of the pump? That way you'd only have to be within 2m (not that there's anything magical about that distance of course) for a very brief time, which you could probably judge for when they're not there?

Thanks for the thought Womble, but, since the pandemic I've always parked up on the "wrong" side of the pump.  However, I think, why should I have to get close to some unknown person, who could cough or splutter while I'm hanging up the nozzle and (normally) waiting for my pay@pump receipt.

(If someone is already fuelling the other side of a pump I have to use, I simply wait 'til they've finished their fuelling ops b4 I go anywhere near the pump !!  But then there's the next one to drive into that fuelling point to contend with b4 I've finished filling up.)
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: macgro7 on June 07, 2020, 10:33:14 pm
To be fair when you are on the other side of the pump you are 2 metres away from the other person, unless you are both hugging the pump. 2 metres is not a lot to be honest  ;)
Most people queueing in the supermarkets are standing 4-5 metres apart  :)
Just dont touch the pump or the payment device without the plastic gloves or paper towel provided.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: arobwk on June 08, 2020, 12:25:40 am
Well macgro7, I'm an excellent judge of a 2m distance and I'm not happy standing opposite someone filling their tank up the other side of the pump or, at a pay@pump pump, going through a transaction at same time as someone the other side. 
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: ZacB on June 08, 2020, 07:01:08 am
Well buy some of your own disposable gloves & ensure you stand away from the filler unit while others are present..............sorted.
Take some ownership of the issues & hopefully things can move on.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Blondie on June 08, 2020, 07:27:07 am
To be honest it’s not something that has bothered me, but then I’m female, no health conditions and under 44 so have the lowest level of risk  :-\

At a small Tesco express with petrol, they did have every other pump blocked off at the start, but I’m sure last time I drove past they were all open? 

I just carry a bottle of hand sanitiser in my bag. Sanitise before pumping. Pump. Hand sanitiser again before getting in the car.

Government information says you can break the 2m social distancing when needed for less than 15 minutes. Plus your outside so risk is even lower.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Rupert the bear on June 08, 2020, 08:24:39 am
Wow ! you need fuel ?
I've been getting 3 months to the gallon recently ! ( yes yes I know , its getting a little old now )
may I suggest gloves /mask/hold your breath/go elsewhere/dont park so close to the pump

Well buy some of your own disposable gloves & ensure you stand away from the filler unit while others are present..............sorted.
Take some ownership of the issues & hopefully things can move on.
This
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: SallyintNorth on June 08, 2020, 09:49:17 am
@arobwk have a virtual (and so, safe)  :hug:  or three   :hug: :hug: :hug:

Guys, be kind.  This is tough for us all, in different ways.  I have been going out and about a bit for a week now, and am getting used to it (having not left the farm, apart from walking on the local lanes a bit to keep the dog's toenails trimmed, for 11 weeks), but the first time I went out to places I had to go in to, I completely freaked out in the agri merchant's.  And I think I've had the ruddy virus, so what did I have to get freaked about?!?  It's not always logical, and that's ok  :hug:

So, arobwk, I would agree that, sadly, we do all have to take responsibility for our own safety, so would just say that you have an absolute right to do whatever it takes to keep yourself safe.  So if someone approaches the pump on the opposite side to you while you are paying, move aside until they are done.  You could also contact the service station and ask them to put up a notice reminding people to be aware and to not come close to a pump while there is someone close on the other side.  Stay safe  :-*

Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Womble on June 08, 2020, 09:58:07 am
No, it is a bit freaky.

I filled up with fuel yesterday for the first time since February, and was the only person wearing gloves or seemingly paying any attention to distancing. People seem to forget that just because they don't care, other people do, and as such it's the least we can all do to be courteous and kind.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Rupert the bear on June 08, 2020, 11:51:40 am
No, it is a bit freaky.

I filled up with fuel yesterday for the first time since February, and was the only person wearing gloves or seemingly paying any attention to distancing. People seem to forget that just because they don't care, other people do, and as such it's the least we can all do to be courteous and kind.
It still grinds my gears  that I see on the news demonstrations / sightseers en masse / street parties / politicians / Tesco delivery drivers * all failing to follow the rules. I've been stuck at home for 12 weeks  doing  as I've been told to do.
* this isnt helped by the Tesco delivery driver disregarding his delivery notes, the notice on the closed and barred gate at the top of the road , who then instead of leaving the stuff at the gate forces it open and drives down to the house and with a cheery  " 'ello mate " tries to hand  the bags to me  :roflanim:

He may have missed the memo.......
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: arobwk on June 08, 2020, 02:37:30 pm
Thanks @SallyintNorth

Otherwise, clearly some interesting times ahead when some folk couldn't care less about anyone else, don't actually read what's written and aren't actually listening to the "message".  Oh well!

Rest assured though:  I go nowhere without my own disposable gloves, mask and 80% alcohol spray and seemingly I am only too prepared to take ownership of the issues for my benefit as well as for the benefit of others !!

Good news from Scotland today, but "Stay Alert"  ???
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: harmony on June 09, 2020, 06:32:52 pm
Thanks @SallyintNorth

Otherwise, clearly some interesting times ahead when some folk couldn't care less about anyone else, don't actually read what's written and aren't actually listening to the "message".  Oh well!

Rest assured though:  I go nowhere without my own disposable gloves, mask and 80% alcohol spray and seemingly I am only too prepared to take ownership of the issues for my benefit as well as for the benefit of others !!

Good news from Scotland today, but "Stay Alert"  ???



They are now saying gloves spread the virus and we shouldn't wear them.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: SallyintNorth on June 09, 2020, 06:42:09 pm
Thanks @SallyintNorth

Otherwise, clearly some interesting times ahead when some folk couldn't care less about anyone else, don't actually read what's written and aren't actually listening to the "message".  Oh well!

Rest assured though:  I go nowhere without my own disposable gloves, mask and 80% alcohol spray and seemingly I am only too prepared to take ownership of the issues for my benefit as well as for the benefit of others !!

Good news from Scotland today, but "Stay Alert"  ???



They are now saying gloves spread the virus and we shouldn't wear them.

Only if we use them stupidly, like putting them on at home and not taking them off till we get home again.

Our local service station has a dispenser of the lightweight plastic gloves right by the pumps.  You stop, get out of your car and get it ready for the fuel, without touching anything except your car, then pull out two gloves and put them on, put the fuel in the car and don't touch anything of your own while you are still wearing the gloves.  Put the fuel dispenser back in its slot and then remove and discard the gloves.  In my case I then go into the store with my hands in my pockets, use my phone to pay so I don't have to touch anything in the store, and return to my car. 

A slight modification to the procedure would be required if paying at the pump, possibly involving a second pair of gloves.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: macgro7 on June 09, 2020, 07:56:21 pm
I went to fill up about months ago - checked for the plastic  gloves - it was empty - the sign said "if empty please notify a member of staff". All of them were empty. So I used the paper towel to touch the dispenser etc. Went to pay m, said to them there's no gloves and they said they don't have any either  :thinking:
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: harmony on June 09, 2020, 08:46:08 pm
Thanks @SallyintNorth

Otherwise, clearly some interesting times ahead when some folk couldn't care less about anyone else, don't actually read what's written and aren't actually listening to the "message".  Oh well!

Rest assured though:  I go nowhere without my own disposable gloves, mask and 80% alcohol spray and seemingly I am only too prepared to take ownership of the issues for my benefit as well as for the benefit of others !!

Good news from Scotland today, but "Stay Alert"  ???



They are now saying gloves spread the virus and we shouldn't wear them.

Only if we use them stupidly, like putting them on at home and not taking them off till we get home again.

Our local service station has a dispenser of the lightweight plastic gloves right by the pumps.  You stop, get out of your car and get it ready for the fuel, without touching anything except your car, then pull out two gloves and put them on, put the fuel in the car and don't touch anything of your own while you are still wearing the gloves.  Put the fuel dispenser back in its slot and then remove and discard the gloves.  In my case I then go into the store with my hands in my pockets, use my phone to pay so I don't have to touch anything in the store, and return to my car. 

A slight modification to the procedure would be required if paying at the pump, possibly involving a second pair of gloves.



Our garage has never been without gloves and I have worked out how to use them  :innocent: I only need one glove to fill up. 


If all you are going to do is fill up your car then a pair of disposable gloves doesn't seem too bad. Say you have to go to work, drop your child off at school on the way, pick up said child at end of school, fill up the car and grab some shopping, then which bits need gloves and so how many pairs of disposables in a day or just stick with sanitiser and handwashing? If so do we need gloves at the pumps or should we just sanitise?















Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: arobwk on June 09, 2020, 10:26:51 pm
I came back to my thread this eve with the intention of removing it.  Mmm - I've decided not to after-all !
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Womble on June 09, 2020, 11:12:55 pm
They are now saying gloves spread the virus and we shouldn't wear them.


That's only if you put a pair of gloves on and then keep them on, thus spreading potential contamination from the petrol pump to your shopping trolley, etc etc.


I now have a collection of disposable gloves in the car. If I put one on to use a petrol pump say, I put it behind the front seat when I take it off. The virus can only survive for so long on surfaces, so after a few days, it can go back in the clean pile to be worn again.


If you wear a fresh glove for each new place or task, that's fine IMO.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Fleecewife on June 09, 2020, 11:44:24 pm
It's not only gloves which are not being worn correctly. I am not allowed out at all so I don't see real life, but on TV it seems to be 'the done thing' to pull your mask down under your chin when speaking to someone, including being interviewed.  That makes a mockery of the whole thing, when you are spraying saliva droplets over the person you are speaking to, they are doing the same to you, your mask is covered in spit on both sides and it is spread over your face and hands when (if) you replace it.  I saw a new take, where someone had folded his mask neatly so it caught the drips under his nose, but left his mouth free.
I think that perhaps, in spite of people the world over now wearing masks and gloves, some people still feel a bit silly and self conscious wearing them.  After all, with The Trumpeter setting us all such a good example by flatly refusing to wear a mask purely for reasons of personal vanity and his own sense of immortality, what message are we actually receiving?
Apologies, not totally on topic, because I haven't been to a petrol station since the end of March.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: harmony on June 10, 2020, 09:37:11 am
I came back to my thread this eve with the intention of removing it.  Mmm - I've decided not to after-all !



I think it is a really good thread because going out and attempting normal tasks isn't normal anymore. I feel pretty lucky that I live in a quiet rural location and don't have to go out that often and it is still fairly quiet but over time that will change.


Taking a single task and doing it in a way that protects you and others isn't that hard. For many more people their days and journeys will be far more complicated to complete safely even with masks, gloves and sanitisers.


We worry about a petrol pump because we know several people have touched it before us but whilst you were in paying someone could have sneezed walking past your car door.  I can't imagine having to use public transport.

Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Womble on June 10, 2020, 09:47:36 am
Taking a single task and doing it in a way that protects you and others isn't that hard.


I think I'd clarify that to say doing *my* bit of it isn't hard (I'm also getting about three months to the gallon just now). The problem is that I'm also dependent on other people doing their bit, and compliance is patchy to say the least.

Given that we have no control over other people, that is bound to cause stress, as described beautifully in this thread.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: harmony on June 10, 2020, 12:40:10 pm
My point was that the more tasks you have to do, involving more surfaces and more people, makes the whole compliance thing much harder. And the harder it is the less likely people comply, because for some people their reality is that they have to go to work or take children to school, shop for themselves etc. For some people the greater risk is not catching Covid but losing their job or house.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Anke on June 10, 2020, 02:48:44 pm
For some people the greater risk is not catching Covid but losing their job or house.


For everybody in the "economically active" age group (as in under 65) that is exactly the point. In Scotland less than 10% of Covid deaths are people aged under 65 - LESS THAN 10 %. (360 out of 4000 to be exact).



Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Womble on June 10, 2020, 03:52:15 pm
That's right. But I'm not sat at home right now for my sake - I'm here for my parents and all their pals.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: harmony on June 10, 2020, 04:15:46 pm
That's right. But I'm not sat at home right now for my sake - I'm here for my parents and all their pals.



My parents are more worried about their grandchildren's education, jobs and houses than catching Covid. I have friends more worried that they can't access cancer treatment at the moment than catching Covid.
We have to find a way to live with Covid because it may never go away.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Anke on June 10, 2020, 06:01:56 pm
That's right. But I'm not sat at home right now for my sake - I'm here for my parents and all their pals.



My parents are more worried about their grandchildren's education, jobs and houses than catching Covid. I have friends more worried that they can't access cancer treatment at the moment than catching Covid.
We have to find a way to live with Covid because it may never go away.


Exactly - if we don't get an effective vaccine (or treatment) soon - what choice have we got?
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Steph Hen on June 11, 2020, 09:34:37 am
Im not sure about gloves, hand gel, social distancing. There’s too much back chat and contradiction. Face masks are only effective for half an hour? Two hours, not effective? Or Leave them for health care workers? Joggers or sneezes need around 8m social distancing or is just 1m enough for everyone? Or does it remain essentially air borne with sufficient people in crowded places? I spent years working in a genetics lab so am very aware of cross contamination, many people aren’t and I’ve seen lots of mouth touching. I don’t trust government advice much because it’s marred with policy rather than science led. Other countries might do masks or temp checks, so this is brought up by the media and they have to defend not doing it or endorse it.

We know that unhealthy people get Covid19 and everything else worse. So fix the problem; subsidise raw fruit and veg and meat, fish and unadulterated whole foods. Tax everything else more. If people ate mostly of whole food; more salad and stew less of the biscuits, chicken nuggets, pizza, sweeteners and preservatives, Covid19 would effect individuals and the population less and it would reduce the nhs demand for other health conditions. Ive been advised this is a crazy, dictatorial and completely unworkable plan which would bring the country to its knees and cause enormous social and economic problems.

I’m mostly worried about everyone’s sanity and especially that of children. My children are small, 3 and nearly 6. Every developmental book I have read says that unstructured, child led play and peer interaction is important. It isn’t possible to socially distance small children while letting them play together. Four months, six months, maybe eight months of this; all are large chunks of time for three year olds. Adults, teenagers and older children can understand social distancing but little ones can’t, so parents are faced with a dilemma, either flout the rules and let them play, or have small children isolated for large chunks of time, critical to their mental development.

Sorry this wasn’t meant to be an off topic rant at all, but I’ve no one to talk to and got carried away.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: harmony on June 11, 2020, 12:10:40 pm

I don't think it is off topic at all because it is all part of the topic of Covid safety and I think you raise really good points.


Mouth touching - it is something you do without thinking. You can't think Covid all the time because everyone has distractions. I've done it myself.


We will feel the associated effects of lockdown and the regulations for years and that is not meant to detract from the awful, direct affect of Covid for many families but it is also a reality. Interesting what you say about the nations health status and addressing that "
Ive been advised this is a crazy, dictatorial and completely unworkable plan which would bring the country to its knees and cause enormous social and economic problems.
" Rather sums up the Covid situation really  :thinking:



Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Fleecewife on June 11, 2020, 12:35:37 pm


We know that unhealthy people get Covid19 and everything else worse. So fix the problem; subsidise raw fruit and veg and meat, fish and unadulterated whole foods. Tax everything else more. If people ate mostly of whole food; more salad and stew less of the biscuits, chicken nuggets, pizza, sweeteners and preservatives, Covid19 would effect individuals and the population less and it would reduce the nhs demand for other health conditions. Ive been advised this is a crazy, dictatorial and completely unworkable plan which would bring the country to its knees and cause enormous social and economic problems.



Unfortunately your solution is too simplistic. For example, I have a genetic condition which has dumped me fair and square in the 'guarding' group.  I eat a really healthy diet and have done for donkey's years.  I don't take any added sugar, I only eat wholemeal grains, loads of veg and fruit, nuts and so on, less meat than most people without being a vegetarian any more and I don't drink alcohol at all - basically all the 'right' things, but still I am frigteningly susceptible to getting this hateful virus, and of dying of it.

Having said that, subsidising healthy food and taxing the bad-for-us stuff is a great idea. If only any Government could see further into the future than the next election we might have some chance of it succeeding - but not in time to save us from this pandemic.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: harmony on June 11, 2020, 01:27:33 pm


We know that unhealthy people get Covid19 and everything else worse. So fix the problem; subsidise raw fruit and veg and meat, fish and unadulterated whole foods. Tax everything else more. If people ate mostly of whole food; more salad and stew less of the biscuits, chicken nuggets, pizza, sweeteners and preservatives, Covid19 would effect individuals and the population less and it would reduce the nhs demand for other health conditions. Ive been advised this is a crazy, dictatorial and completely unworkable plan which would bring the country to its knees and cause enormous social and economic problems.



Unfortunately your solution is too simplistic. For example, I have a genetic condition which has dumped me fair and square in the 'guarding' group.  I eat a really healthy diet and have done for donkey's years.  I don't take any added sugar, I only eat wholemeal grains, loads of veg and fruit, nuts and so on, less meat than most people without being a vegetarian any more and I don't drink alcohol at all - basically all the 'right' things, but still I am frigteningly susceptible to getting this hateful virus, and of dying of it.

Having said that, subsidising healthy food and taxing the bad-for-us stuff is a great idea. If only any Government could see further into the future than the next election we might have some chance of it succeeding - but not in time to save us from this pandemic.



Steph Hen did say "reduce" not eliminate the problem.  Boris did say he wanted people to be healthier going forward. It isn't just about making the easy but unhealthy foods less attractive but people knowing how to actually cook the healthier stuff.


This hard for people for different reasons and I can see that for those shielding going forward is not easy.  :hug:
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: arobwk on June 11, 2020, 04:51:12 pm
Here's another real-life social distancing scenario:

Little Sis has now re-opened her roofing company's reception/sales counter with distancing marks and screens etc.

To a customer "Please wait there and I'll get your order" ... the customer followed her into the store area regardless saying  "Don't worry, it's not in Cornwall and I haven't got it."

Oh dear !! 

[In passing, naughty me, if anyone in Cornwall/S Devon needs a good roofing contractor (and I mean a really good roofing contractor) you should include MAR Roofing in your short-list for quotes.  There are companies that have started up with look-a-like biz names and copy-cat company livery, but it's MAR Roofing you need to contact.] 
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: arobwk on June 13, 2020, 02:28:41 pm
And where is the Cv-19 R number worst at the moment?  Well, it's in the least affected region so far - the South West.  While I did hear that the latest 0.8-1.1 R score for the SW was affected by a spike in a much smaller area (all a bit vague), I cannot but wonder whether complacency is a key factor ... e.g. not to worry, it's not down here and "I don't have it".

While the rest of you might be enjoying a beverage in a spacious "beer garden" soon, spare a thought !

"Stay alert"   ??? 


[However, hopefully the adverse R score will help counter the massive surge of property enquiries from outside the region (outside Cornwall in particular):  :fc: 
Due to the latter - writing on the wall - there have been some unwelcome suggestions from family members recently that setting up a new family home in France should be considered:  I'll say right now that I'm a Francophobe, but getting rurally lost in the French countryside is sounding just a bit more attractive by the day !!!!!!!]
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: arobwk on June 17, 2020, 03:42:14 pm
Getting back to the original point of this thread:  my MP has passed on a response from Sainsbury's who advised her that, inter alia, they are " ... regularly reminding customers to keep to a safe two metre distance whilst using the pumps."  Well, I know they are NOT !!
Mention was also made of their provision of sanitisers and gloves on forecourts - I wish!  Again porky pies. 
This is not me just having a go at Sainsbury's:  other fuel outlets are no better.  No one seems to have twigged that fuel station pumps actually provide a ready pathway for pathogens to be shared and, as lock-down is eased, that it will become an increasing hazard !!  May I suggest that you don't "Stay Alert" and that, instead you "Don't Forget". 


As it stands however, "Stay Alert"  ???
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Buttermilk on June 17, 2020, 07:07:28 pm
At a largeish garage near here within 15 minutes of refilling all the gloves for the fuel pumps they had been taken by someone.  It is not all the fault of the garage.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: arobwk on June 17, 2020, 07:16:50 pm
or, Buttermilk, was that just an excuse offered by the garage when they have simply not bothered to monitor glove dispensers? 
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Buttermilk on June 18, 2020, 12:41:34 pm
or, Buttermilk, was that just an excuse offered by the garage when they have simply not bothered to monitor glove dispensers?
I watched the man at the pump next to me empty the box at his pump.  When at the till I told them they said it happened every day.  They said that they had put out paper towels instead and they too got taken.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: harmony on June 18, 2020, 01:31:15 pm
At a largeish garage near here within 15 minutes of refilling all the gloves for the fuel pumps they had been taken by someone.  It is not all the fault of the garage.



Doesn't surprise me when hand sanitisers were ripped off hospital walls that someone would pinch gloves.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Steph Hen on June 18, 2020, 05:07:21 pm
Some people are very scared of the whole thing. This sort of behaviour seems very selfish and foolish, but for some this them just trying to protect their loved ones. My mum was able to give some disposable gloves she had to her neighbour who was a carer and provided with none. The neighbour was extremely grateful. I think we can be too quick to ‘turn’ on fellow people who are all dealing with this differently. It’s not like BP don’t have any funding behind them to provide more. The amount of fumes and bits of fuel residue on pump handles probably keeps them pretty clean of biologicals anyway.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: arobwk on June 19, 2020, 07:33:47 pm
Steph Hen, your 1st sentence below may well be true (almost certainly true actually), but there's no excuse for being selfish in circumstances like these (I reckon anyway)!
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: arobwk on June 22, 2020, 08:54:24 pm
....... However, hopefully the adverse R score will help counter the massive surge of property enquiries from outside the region (outside Cornwall in particular):  :fc:   Due to the latter - writing on the wall - there have been some unwelcome suggestions from family members recently that setting up a new family home in France should be considered:  I'll say right now that I'm a Francophobe, but getting rurally lost in the French countryside is sounding just a bit more attractive by the day !!!!!!!]
Did anyone consult us?  Channel 4 are right now broadcasting a "Devon and Cornwall" programme. For goodness sake;  why not a "Highlands and Lowlands" or whatever and whatever?  Please do, when conditions permit, come pitch a tent or a caravan, but, otherwise .....
The extreme SW is not the only nice bit of the UK:  please go check out other areas as well - property elsewhere will likely be much cheaper actually !!!
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: SallyintNorth on June 22, 2020, 09:02:52 pm
@arobwk, can't read any of what you are quoting.  You need to do whatever that trick was Dan told Fleecewife...
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: arobwk on June 22, 2020, 09:12:41 pm
For my convenience @SallyintNorth , here's a paste of the quote which was from one of my own posts:

"[However, hopefully the adverse R score will help counter the massive surge of property enquiries from outside the region (outside Cornwall in particular):  Due to the latter - writing on the wall - there have been some unwelcome suggestions from family members recently that setting up a new family home in France should be considered:  I'll say right now that I'm a Francophobe, but getting rurally lost in the French countryside is sounding just a bit more attractive by the day !!!!!!!]"
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: doganjo on June 22, 2020, 09:22:31 pm
The new thoughts are that it is actually better not to use plastic gloves or any other type of glove and to maintain hand washing/gel cleaning instead.

Plastic and hard surfaces hold the virus alive better than soft fabrics where it apparently dies quicker.

By the same reasoning it is believed that plastic aprons are not helpful either, and fabric aprons are believed to be better
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Fleecewife on June 23, 2020, 12:48:44 am
@arobwk, can't read any of what you are quoting.  You need to do whatever that trick was Dan told Fleecewife...

When you quote something, next click on the blue arrow inside pink parentheses top right above the icon rows. It will look odd as you type your message, but it comes good when you post.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Buttermilk on June 23, 2020, 11:09:55 am
The Devon and Cornwall programme on tv is because they have run out of the Yorkshire Dales and Lakes repeats.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: doganjo on June 23, 2020, 11:38:11 am
I'm in Scotland and I'm shielding.  I'm allowed to drive around 5 ish miles or so. I will need fuel soon and it scares me.  I can't let anyone else take my car for fuel because it is part of my safe place - an extension of my home.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Fleecewife on June 23, 2020, 12:35:12 pm
The new thoughts are that it is actually better not to use plastic gloves or any other type of glove and to maintain hand washing/gel cleaning instead.

Plastic and hard surfaces hold the virus alive better than soft fabrics where it apparently dies quicker.

By the same reasoning it is believed that plastic aprons are not helpful either, and fabric aprons are believed to be better

I think this is a bit academic, because gloves, masks and pinnies are all single use - while you are wearing them they are potentially infected, but then you throw them away.  The plus point of a plastic pinnie is that it stops liquids getting through to your everyday clothing underneath, which fabric pinnies do not do.  There are no hand washing facilities at the pumps so you would be relying on sanitiser alone - to my mind best to wear gloves, remove before you get inside your can, then sanitise your hands anyway. Nothing is OTT in a pandemic!!  Fabric masks depend on people washing them between wearings, which may not happen.
I think the time difference between viral particles sticking to plastics and to porous surface is something like up to 7 hours on work surfaces, three hours for plastics and a little less for porous surfaces, so basically  not that huge a difference. I quarantine everything that comes into the house for about a week (recommended time is 72 hours min), except packs of fresh veg and fruit; with them I remove the wrapping and toss it, then the inside box and the product should be virus free, depending on how long ago they were harvested, (so they are thoroughly washed before eating just in case, but that would happen anyway).

For getting fuel, I'm shielding too. Mr F fills the car: he wears gloves we supply ourselves and disposes of them in the bin on site.  If there are gloves provided, he puts them on over our own pair for using the pump.  He always goes to a pump which takes cards, and he makes sure there is no-one too close.  You have bag loads of common sense Annie, so don't be scared by this thread, just do what you know is right.  We have no card pumps near us so he fills up when collecting groceries from places like Sainsbury's and Tesco which seem to have card pumps.  If necessary, drive that little bit further to find a refill station you are happy with - you are in your safe place and no-one is checking how far you drive.  If you were by some freakish policy stopped by police, then explain your decision - Cummings did it, you are no different, you are able to look to your own best interests. The Gov text that came through today says, and I quote: <<.. you can safely make choices that reflect your own needs>> So no problem, be in control of your own life  :D
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: SallyintNorth on June 23, 2020, 01:18:48 pm
I'm in Scotland and I'm shielding.  I'm allowed to drive around 5 ish miles or so. I will need fuel soon and it scares me.  I can't let anyone else take my car for fuel because it is part of my safe place - an extension of my home.

Annie, if I were nearby I would arrange to meet you at a service station and fill your car and pay for it without you needing to even get out of your car or open the window.  Do you have a friend or neighbour who would do that for you?

Don't underestimate the amount of freaking out your first trip or two out might induce.  I think I've probably had the ruddy virus, there's very little circulating in Cornwall right now (although I know that could change once holidays are allowed), so my actual risk is very small.  Nonetheless, on my first two forays after 11 weeks locked down, I got a bit freaked once and totally freaked once.  It was almost funny in retrospect, my rational self knew the risk was small but my vagal system was almost totally in control, yet my British politeness made me find the strength to first tell the assistant that I knew it wasn't her fault and that they were doing their best before almost screeching, "Now I just need to be OUT of here NOW! How do I get OUT?!"  Back in the car, hyperventilating, I abandoned my plan for going into a second store and fled.  But before I even left the town I had calmed down and decided to try one last foray, and that was fine, even when I literally couldn't get out with my purchases because the one way system in that store meant I had to cross the folks coming in, and they didn't stop coming and there was no wider gap in which I could cross!  ::)  (So again, had to be Not British and ask someone coming in if they could please hold back and let me come out first.  lol)
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: arobwk on June 23, 2020, 05:50:02 pm
1 metre + .... any suggestions ?
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: doganjo on June 23, 2020, 06:31:01 pm
Yes, I AM sensible and my son in law is the Associate Clinical Director of NHS 24 in Scotland so I always get the very best of advice and support - but I have been out in my car twice since our shielding rules changed on Sunday and i was terrified.  Totally irrational - I have never freaked out in my 76 years of life -  ever - but each time I walked the dogs and then couldn't get back home fast enough without breaking any speed limits. 

I have enough fuel for two more runs out at least, so maybe tomorrow I will take courage in both hands and go to my usual filling station at Morrisons.  I might do a dummy run just now when I take the dogs out and suss out what it looks like
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: SallyintNorth on June 23, 2020, 07:51:43 pm
1 metre + .... any suggestions ?

Yes.  Keep coughing, I think you will find that people give you plenty of space...
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Fleecewife on June 23, 2020, 09:17:19 pm
1 metre + .... any suggestions ?

Yes.  Keep coughing, I think you will find that people give you plenty of space...

 :roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: harmony on June 24, 2020, 09:05:33 am
1 metre + .... any suggestions ?


The "plus" means ppe I think.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: doganjo on June 24, 2020, 01:35:32 pm
I had a quick reccy t Morrisons yesterday on my way home - I can't see any pay at pumps nd ther was a queue.  Might have a look at ASDA tonight
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: arobwk on June 24, 2020, 03:02:10 pm
1 metre + .... any suggestions ?

Yes.  Keep coughing, I think you will find that people give you plenty of space...

 :roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:

Unfortunately not a ploy I will adopt:  down here, one is more likely to be turned on by a gang of angry nearby shoppers rather than they remove themselves to leave the dairy aisle all to one's self for a bit of casual cheese selection.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Fleecewife on June 24, 2020, 06:20:10 pm
1 metre + .... any suggestions ?

I have no idea about it - up here we are sticking with 2 metres distance, and I take that as an absolute minimum.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: in the hills on June 24, 2020, 09:57:24 pm
Wales seem to be sticking to the 2m rule .......so far anyway!
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: doganjo on June 25, 2020, 10:16:39 pm
1 metre + .... any suggestions ?

I have no idea about it - up here we are sticking with 2 metres distance, and I take that as an absolute minimum.
Friends visited me today and asked me to move closer than the 3 and a half metres i'd set the seats at - so they didn't have to shout - I moved half a metre  :roflanim: :roflanim:  Maybe they'll say I'm paranoid but hey, do I care?  :innocent:
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Womble on June 26, 2020, 08:44:11 am
Wales seem to be sticking to the 2m rule .......so far anyway!

Because, here's the thing, it's not a rule - it's a risk-based continuum (https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/coronavirus-reducing-distance-to-one-metre-increases-transmission-risk/). If you spend one second twenty metres away from me, your risk of contracting CV from me is miniscule. However, if we spend hours cuddling, I'm almost certain to give it to you.

Quote
The risk of coronavirus infection when people stand more than a metre away from the infected individual was found to be 3 per cent, and 13 per cent if within a metre.

However, according to the analysis published in The Lancet, modelling suggests for every extra metre further away up to three metres, the risk of infection or transmission may halve.

Ideally the government would publish a three dimensional graph to explain this. Possibly a surface plot or a colour coded risk matrix:

(https://i.stack.imgur.com/I7T3G.png)

But of course they can't, can they? So, the best they can do really is to decide a trade-off between virus transmission and for example restaurants being able to make a profit, and go from there.

The issue with that of course is firstly the message gets simplified down to "1 metre" or "2 metres", and then people are muppets anyway and go to the beach in their thousands because nobody has communicated that the biggest risk factor is not really the distance you're at, but the number of different people you are in contact with over time.

The only thing we can do personally is to stay within the published rules and then calibrate our own risk matrices on top of that according to our own health situations, etc. Within health and safety, we aim to reduce risk to "as low as reasonably practicable". That's not the same as "as low as possible", but instead says "firstly follow recognised good practice, and then on top of that make a balanced judgement on how to reduce risk, taking into account the severity of the harm and the cost, time and hassle of risk reduction measures".

That's a sound principle to apply here also, don't you think?
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: harmony on June 26, 2020, 08:54:14 am
1 metre + .... any suggestions ?

I have no idea about it - up here we are sticking with 2 metres distance, and I take that as an absolute minimum.
Friends visited me today and asked me to move closer than the 3 and a half metres i'd set the seats at - so they didn't have to shout - I moved half a metre  :roflanim: :roflanim:  Maybe they'll say I'm paranoid but hey, do I care?  :innocent:


No shouting - projects virus further.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: doganjo on June 26, 2020, 11:44:35 am
1 metre + .... any suggestions ?

I have no idea about it - up here we are sticking with 2 metres distance, and I take that as an absolute minimum.
Friends visited me today and asked me to move closer than the 3 and a half metres i'd set the seats at - so they didn't have to shout - I moved half a metre  :roflanim: :roflanim:  Maybe they'll say I'm paranoid but hey, do I care?  :innocent:


No shouting - projects virus further.
Yes I did mention that too.  My friend is very soft spoken and I am a little hard of hearing so i said 'say again' quite a few times  :innocent: :roflanim:
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Fleecewife on June 26, 2020, 12:04:21 pm
Womble, that's a great explanation, well put. The Gov advice has to cover the LCD, but in fact a huge proportion of people are up to understanding a more in depth discussion than we are given credit for, and a better understanding usually leads to better compliance.
Those pictures from the beaches are infuriating and frightening.  When it boils down to it, we have to make our own decisions to secure our own best chance of survival, using the best information we can find. Good luck and good health to everyone  :hshoe: :sunshine:
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: doganjo on June 26, 2020, 12:37:03 pm
Wales seem to be sticking to the 2m rule .......so far anyway!

Because, here's the thing, it's not a rule - it's a risk-based continuum (https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/coronavirus-reducing-distance-to-one-metre-increases-transmission-risk/). If you spend one second twenty metres away from me, your risk of contracting CV from me is miniscule. However, if we spend hours cuddling, I'm almost certain to give it to you.

Quote
The risk of coronavirus infection when people stand more than a metre away from the infected individual was found to be 3 per cent, and 13 per cent if within a metre.

However, according to the analysis published in The Lancet, modelling suggests for every extra metre further away up to three metres, the risk of infection or transmission may halve.

Ideally the government would publish a three dimensional graph to explain this. Possibly a surface plot or a colour coded risk matrix:

(https://i.stack.imgur.com/I7T3G.png)

But of course they can't, can they? So, the best they can do really is to decide a trade-off between virus transmission and for example restaurants being able to make a profit, and go from there.

The issue with that of course is firstly the message gets simplified down to "1 metre" or "2 metres", and then people are muppets anyway and go to the beach in their thousands because nobody has communicated that the biggest risk factor is not really the distance you're at, but the number of different people you are in contact with over time.

The only thing we can do personally is to stay within the published rules and then calibrate our own risk matrices on top of that according to our own health situations, etc. Within health and safety, we aim to reduce risk to "as low as reasonably practicable". That's not the same as "as low as possible", but instead says "firstly follow recognised good practice, and then on top of that make a balanced judgement on how to reduce risk, taking into account the severity of the harm and the cost, time and hassle of risk reduction measures".

That's a sound principle to apply here also, don't you think?
Only improvement on that floating chart woould be axis labels.  I think most peopel would then understand it.  It's just a preetty picture with numbers as it stands.  But I think it would definitely be useful
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: SallyintNorth on June 26, 2020, 04:08:54 pm
The beach pictures and this discussion put me in mind of people's behaviour in cars.

Some drive a safe distance from the car in front, but when they find that other people then drive into that space, they get into an "oh, no you don't" mindset, and end up driving closer to the car in front in order to not leave enough space for someone to drive into their "stopping distance gap". 

Some years ago, I decided that the intelligent response was to just keep dropping back, and back, and back.  "Winning" / "Not being taken for a mug", and being safe are mutually exclusive in this scenario, so I just allow myself a bit of feeling smug about making better choices, and don't fret about arriving 5 minutes later on a two hour journey...

So, if it were me arriving at Bournemouth beach to that, I would turn around and decide not to do the beach today.  And if I was on the beach and it became impossible to maintain even 1m distance, I would decide that that was the end of beach time today.

I do completely understand how people who have been locked down, and especially with kids under their feet 24x7 for the duration, really really want to get out and have some beach time, but my view is that we each are responsible for our own choices.  Mine is to keep myself safe and not put others at risk.  Others make different choices.

The NHS is now considerably better prepared than it was.  The disease and its treatments are better understood, the Nightingale field hospitals are equipped and ready.  This time of year there is less other pressure on the NHS, and less other flu/pneumonia type stuff circulating and exacerbating the COVID problems.  So, actually, allowing people who choose to take risks to cause a second wave is not an unintelligent choice, and probably won't result in more deaths than any other choice at this point, all things considered.  And perhaps it will be better to have the second wave now, before the next flu season... 

But, if you are vulnerable or feel so, for goodness sake take more precautions not less.  Good on you, Annie, stick to your 3m and no less!  And Fleecewife, stay out of stores and other high-risk places, please! 

I do utterly understand that the expected influx of tourists into Cornwall and other places is going to make it harder for folks like yourself, arobwk, to stay safe.  But we can take avoiding action : shop early in the morning, don't visit the popular beaches and cafes, etc.  Because there does come a point when keeping people caged up, preventing businesses from operating at all, not getting some semblance of self-determination back, would of itself start to be the bigger killer.  Less measurable, but equally deadly.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Womble on June 26, 2020, 04:14:53 pm
^ No, that's not actually a real chart @doganjo  - it's just an example of a Matlab surface plot. However, because you're right - axes should always be properly labelled....
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: SallyintNorth on June 26, 2020, 04:16:07 pm
 :roflanim:
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Fleecewife on June 27, 2020, 12:41:05 am
  And Fleecewife, stay out of stores and other high-risk places, please! 


The only risky place I've been was to collect the rescue dogs, and we were all in hazmat suits  :innocent: Otherwise I am totally isolated up here in my little wilderness.  Food is click and collect, anything else is mail order.  Everything that comes into the house from alien places is bleached or scrubbed - trust me, I'm a nurse  :farmer: :garden:
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: SallyintNorth on June 27, 2020, 01:13:14 am
Wait, what? 

The only risky place I've been was to collect the rescue dogs

Is there some news you should be telling us.. ?   :innocent:
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: doganjo on June 27, 2020, 10:06:56 am
^ No, that's not actually a real chart @doganjo  - it's just an example of a Matlab surface plot. However, because you're right - axes should always be properly labelled....
  OK I get that the days can be ascertained and verified, and the miles too - but how do you calculate the stupidity of people?  Is there a mathematical formula that i missed when doing Higher Maths some years ago?  :eyelashes: :eyelashes: :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: :excited: :excited: :excited:
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Womble on June 27, 2020, 10:25:08 am
That's the beauty of a surface plot Annie. If you know days and miles, you can read the stupidity quotient directly from the chart.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: Fleecewife on June 27, 2020, 11:54:06 am
Wait, what? 

The only risky place I've been was to collect the rescue dogs

Is there some news you should be telling us.. ?   :innocent:

Yes  :yippee:  I'll post pics in a separate thread later of Mia and Sophie.  We had to rescue them as they had been incarcerated for nearly a year.  They are very happy now  8) :love: :love:
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: arobwk on July 01, 2020, 06:10:04 pm
Oh dear, 1st of July already.  Just 2 more days to do a big "that will do me for a while" shop with reasonable distancing measures still in place! 
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: macgro7 on July 01, 2020, 07:49:56 pm
Well, we had to close our shop again, I was there yesterday and one old guys started swearing at me because I told him we are closed and I'm not allow to let him in as we are in the lockdown zone again - I was dispatching online orders, so I'm allowed to sit in the shop with the shutter closed and door slightly open for fresh air!
Its so bad. We are OK but there are so many people who spend a lot of many to reopen again either last week or the coming weekend and now they are told they are not allowed to open again.
Its important to stay safe but a lot of people are going out of business!
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: doganjo on July 02, 2020, 01:46:17 pm
Well, we had to close our shop again, I was there yesterday and one old guys started swearing at me because I told him we are closed and I'm not allow to let him in as we are in the lockdown zone again - I was dispatching online orders, so I'm allowed to sit in the shop with the shutter closed and door slightly open for fresh air!
Its so bad. We are OK but there are so many people who spend a lot of many to reopen again either last week or the coming weekend and now they are told they are not allowed to open again.
Its important to stay safe but a lot of people are going out of business!
And these people are going out of business because we didn't go into lockdown quick enough and Joe Public didn't believe it was necessary or didn't think it applied to him.  Young people automatically think they are invincible and don't always think of other people.  My own 18 year old grandson had to be reminded of the implications and his parents are on the front line
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: harmony on July 02, 2020, 03:42:40 pm
Well, we had to close our shop again, I was there yesterday and one old guys started swearing at me because I told him we are closed and I'm not allow to let him in as we are in the lockdown zone again - I was dispatching online orders, so I'm allowed to sit in the shop with the shutter closed and door slightly open for fresh air!
Its so bad. We are OK but there are so many people who spend a lot of many to reopen again either last week or the coming weekend and now they are told they are not allowed to open again.
Its important to stay safe but a lot of people are going out of business!
And these people are going out of business because we didn't go into lockdown quick enough and Joe Public didn't believe it was necessary or didn't think it applied to him.  Young people automatically think they are invincible and don't always think of other people.  My own 18 year old grandson had to be reminded of the implications and his parents are on the front line


I don't doubt an earlier lockdown might have made a huge difference  and at some point we will no doubt have an inquiry that will answer that. It might have saved some jobs but it wouldn't have saved them all. We are only seeing the start of the redundancies.


And it isn't just young people who haven't engaged with the rules. Within two miles of me we have at least 2 properties where people came here after lockdown to their second homes. Both are well educated, have very good jobs and old enough to know better. We are all well aware of the Cummings and Goings of those at government level.


Mr Johnson is urging people to apply caution as we see the relaxation of rules at the weekend. On the same day we hear his Father flew to Greece via Bulgaria to his holiday villa as you can't fly direct to Greece yet from the UK. Essential travel  :thinking: ?????



Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: macgro7 on July 02, 2020, 11:12:01 pm
I don't doubt an earlier lockdown might have made a huge difference  and at some point we will no doubt have an inquiry that will answer that. It might have saved some jobs but it wouldn't have saved them all. We are only seeing the start of the redundancies.
We cal speculate and blame this guy and that organisation etc but realistically we will never know if it made any difference. What happened happened and we can't change it. We can only plan for the future.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: harmony on July 03, 2020, 09:27:36 am
I don't doubt an earlier lockdown might have made a huge difference  and at some point we will no doubt have an inquiry that will answer that. It might have saved some jobs but it wouldn't have saved them all. We are only seeing the start of the redundancies.
We cal speculate and blame this guy and that organisation etc but realistically we will never know if it made any difference. What happened happened and we can't change it. We can only plan for the future.


I think that it is possible to see what would have happened had we closed down earlier because we know what the infection rate was doing. We had the benefit of seeing what was happening with infection rates in the countries ahead of us. A lockdown a month earlier would have certainly reduced infection rates and deaths. We may have come out of lockdown sooner or we may not. Could it have made much difference to what is happening to our economy and recovery? Possibly the impact would have been less but still incredibly significant.


If we don't examine closely what we did or didn't do then we can't plan for the future.



Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: doganjo on July 03, 2020, 11:39:14 am
Quote
If we don't examine closely what we did or didn't do then we can't plan for the future.
Exactly - how else do we learn but by our mistakes.
Yes we must plan for the future and that future will be massivley different to what we have known - but ....  It may be a better future.  :excited:

At Smallholding Scotland's last trustees meeting we all agreed that many people have taken to growing their own food (and flowers) and we have seen lovely gardens appear where there were slabs and concrete before, so we need to prepare for that future by encouraging those new gardeners to expand further
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: harmony on July 04, 2020, 09:23:18 am
Quote
If we don't examine closely what we did or didn't do then we can't plan for the future.
Exactly - how else do we learn but by our mistakes.
Yes we must plan for the future and that future will be massivley different to what we have known - but ....  It may be a better future.  :excited:

At Smallholding Scotland's last trustees meeting we all agreed that many people have taken to growing their own food (and flowers) and we have seen lovely gardens appear where there were slabs and concrete before, so we need to prepare for that future by encouraging those new gardeners to expand further


There has certainly been some positives amongst the gloom.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: chrismahon on July 04, 2020, 09:58:54 am
Same happened here. Our neighbour had a 2x2 metre bed of compost and grew tomatoes for the first ever time last year. This year during lockdown he rotorvated part of his lawn and now has a vegetable plot about 100m2. I had to smile while he was doing it as his previous job was purely administrative- Minister of Agriculture.


There are long queues outside the garden centre now, because only 5 are allowed in the shop at any time and have to follow a marked walkway, which is a pain as I generally only go for chicken feed and that's right at the end near the tills.
Title: Re: Garage (fuel) forecourts - social distancing at the pumps.
Post by: arobwk on July 15, 2020, 06:43:59 pm
Well, I despair:  I had a gardening job this afternoon and, while setting up, noticed that a garden party was gathering a few chalets down.  I sort of kept my eye on out of interest:  within 20 mins, 5 vehicles arrived and there was big kissing and hugging all round as the incumbents piled out of their vehicles.  Hmmm ! 

On the way home, passing the Halfway House, I could not but notice a young lady bending towards/speaking to another young lady who was sitting at an outside table (obviously) with their heads less than, I would say, 2 feet apart.  (I don't reckon they were a "couple".)

Boris and his merry band might as well save their breath !!  Roll on the next nation-wide spike to make people understand their behaviour (Cv-19 mis-behaviour) has consequences.  Hopefully neither you nor I will be affected by this ignorant behaviour.