[Greenerlife]

Spent an hour and a half digging my 90 and a trailer out of a very muddy field yesterday!  Grrrr.....  yhat'll teacj me to have road tyres!

[waterhouse]

In the mid 70's I looked after three diesel lwb station wagons which had been heavily used and minimally maintained. They were awful to fix and awful to drive except in heavy crud when their complete absence of power stopped them getting themselves into trouble.  Everything was adjustable but it was impossible to get it right.  For every correctly adjusted item something else went out of kilter. 

But it was those bloody awful engines that got me. Winter starting involved a Transit, jump leads and copious squirts of Easy Start.  Then we got a six cylinder petrol model and it was a transformation.  Smooth, easy starting and fast: pity about the single digit fuel consumption.

Can't see anyone having fond memories over the current models in forty years

[VSS]

When students, we had a Landrover ex military "half ton utility truck". The sort with cutaway wings that the military dropper out of helicopters.
Petrol engine thirsty, but towed like a dream. No roof, only a roll bar. Fuel tank under the drivers seat. Great fun, but not really practical for a family. Now on my second disco.

[bazzais]

lol - Womble and your exhaust.  Its the same with me - if it falls off and it still runs - it isnt needed.

I'd love a landy but have never owned one.  The first 4x4 I bought and still have is a nissan navara and its s**t in comparison to any landy I've driven.  You may as well have a rudder instead of a steering wheel and all this fly by wire, sensor, plastic bumpers and electronic gadgetry is 'call a garage for repairs' situation every time.

The boss I used to work for as a kid helped start the west wales 4x4 club and he used to let me drive his shortened wheelbase demon around the farm.  I remember when I first drove it and I didnt want to drive down the track cos it might get scratched - he just looked over to me and said 'this is my toy, its not a car, this is what landies do' we proceeded to drive over objects I thought impossible - I particularly liked being able to pull an 'endo' on the yard with the brake bias full up front and then spin off on a sixpence with the independent rear handbrakes.  It was also strange still driving through fords with water upto the bottom of the dash.

I'd love to get into some of the white roading expeditions again with a nice landy but its a little out the mainstream now as its frowned upon by enviro warriors and do gooders.  Much like any motorsports have been marginalised these days.

Ta

Baz

[Norfolk Newby]

I know this is heresy - sorry!

I have a Toyota Landcruiser Amazon. Nearly 3 tons with a 4.2 litre turbocharged 6 cylinder diesel engine. It's a comfortable truck which I use to pull my horse box.

What I really wanted was something much more basic. I can manage without air conditioning, electric windows, heated seat and mirrors but the basic Landcruisers aren't sold here in the UK. Lots of them in Africa and Australia and a standar Land Rover (defender?) is isn't heavy enough (IMHO).

I read lots of worrying stories about various other brands of 4X4 (no names!) and have had a good experience with 2 Toyotas prior to this one. But all the fancy bits worry me!

I want a strong chassis, 200hp engine (diesel please), no corrosion and rubber mats inside. I can put seat protectors on if they are cloth or leather but heavy vinyl would be nice. Weight should be 2.5 to 3 tons as I don't like pulling a 3.5 ton trailer with anything much lighter than that. It can't be much heavier (eg Unimog) as I only have a car licence.

Surely that's possible.

[mab]

Well my old longwheelbase Series 2A landrover weighed over 2.25 tons - and that was with the rover v8 which is all alloy - if you had a cast iron lump under the bonnet (and an auto box - they're heavy) I'd have thought a LWB defender should be close to 3 tons. Having said that mine was a 1 ton payload with reinforced axles leafstrings & chassis.

You could try a rangerover - the new ones are over 3 tons I think; don't know about the old ones.

Maybe the reason your Toyota and the rangerover are 3 tons is because of all the extras like air-con - so you might be stuck with the luxuries  .

mab

[waterhouse]

Not sure why a 4wd has to be uncomfortable! 

[Fergie]

Not sure why a 4wd has to be uncomfortable! 

 A beam axle is better off road & stronger than independent suspension, but will make the vehicle pitch from side to side on rough roads.  The older Land Rovers such as the Series 2A & 3 were designed so that in really rough conditions the driver would have to slow down to prevent them hitting their head on the roof, hence preventing damage to the vehicle.  This is one reason Land Rover took so long to adopt coil suspension - it allowed a higher speed in conditions where there was a risk to the vehicle.  They only adopted it after users demanded it, following competition from other manufacturers (and a lot of design & development).

Additionally the high centre of gravity of a 4x4 is never going to be as stable as a modern car, so there is always a compromise  in comfort & roadholding.  It's a case of horses for courses - you choose one because you need one, either for offroad or towing heavy loads.

John

[Fergie]

I should add that not all 4x4s are uncomfortable - some have modern suspension, but they tend to be categorised as "soft roaders" which are more suitable for the school run than heavy duty off-roading or towing.

John

[MiriMaran]

I have a 1969 S2a and adore it, but am getting slightly nervous about getting the children to school on time when the weather gets colder.  It starts fine, but then stalls very easily.

When I broke down this summer i phoned a friend to rescue me.  He turned up in a Toyota Landcruiser with a sticker in the back window "Official Landrover recovery vehicle"  The cheek of it!!

[mab]

Well there's no denying that the modern japanese vehicles are more reliable, but on the other hand you don't need a million different special tools, and hands the size of a toddlers' to fix an old landy.

And then there's the cost of parts - you can buy seal sets for all the brake cylinders for a few pounds. That compares favorably with my mum's Hyundai when I had to replace the clutch slave cylinder (can only get the complete part)- tiny part, that fitted into the palm of my hand - which cost £140 + VAT!! 

mab

[clumbaboy]

Hi everyone
        I agree the bits for old landies are well cheap and easy to fit.  My old trooper went to kwik-fit for an oil change it took them 5 hours due to all the fiddling about with sump guards and having 2 oil filters.

[hughesy]

I should add that not all 4x4s are uncomfortable - some have modern suspension, but they tend to be categorised as "soft roaders" which are more suitable for the school run than heavy duty off-roading or towing.

John

Unless they are a discovery. Best of both worlds, comfort and "proper" Land Rover off road and towing ability.

[waterhouse]

...but they're now packed with electronics and sensors.  I'm happy to be proved wrong but I suspect they will be too expensive to keep going some time after about 15 years old, maybe sooner.  Scrappage on you come.  The old landrover was built by blacksmiths and could be maintained by anyone with a big hammer.  Then the Japanese turned up with a version that didn't need maintenance whatever you did with it and took away much of the world market - shades of the British motorcycle industry

Landrover's fightback has been impressive but the current offerings are heavily biased towards people with a lot of money who never go off road.  While the lighter 4wd's are aimed at hairdressers. 

The comment about driving at speed reminded me about an occasion when I took a series 3 across sheep pasture during the 70's.  I was used to driving my 2CV which was imperturbable at speed on rough ground. Not so the land rover, not if you wanted to keep your teeth.

[Daveravey]

I served my apprenticeship in a landie dealer & have owned 4 in the past.

Love 'em, they're just a big meccano set... something breaks, just bolt a new bit on