[SmallWelshBarn]

Hello fello pigge keepers. I am located on the edge of the Forest of Dean I keep a couple of pigs just because I enjoy their company and they help keep an area of woodland bramble and weed free. Last year I had a break in by an unknown boar. The consequence is my sow was in pig. She farrowed down in late March the consequence was some beautiful piggies. As the sow had always lived a free roaming life with her sister she resisted farrowing in a nice stone warm sty. She opted for out side in the cold and wet and right next to a stock proof fence. In the end I ended up hand rearing all the babies from the start ( long story ) I successfully hand reared 11 babies with the help of my Maremma. They are the most awesome friendly little creatures now about 9 months old. In December I sent the boys of to slaughter as becoming a handful. They produced amazing lean meat and every one that had some were blown aways with the taste.
I am left with 6 girls every day they follow me out from the stable they live in to fields and woodland they have to enjoy a good couple of acres.
This is my problem. I have various footpaths that cross my fields and woods. The main one is the offers Dyke which I fenced in on both sides creating a corridor for walkers. This path is smack bang in the middle of a my land. I installed 2 gates between the corridor so animals can cross the land and not wander up the foot path corridor.
First issue is I am told I am not allowed the gates I have installed and they must not be used as I have no permission and the foot path officer has indicated even if I apply I won't get consent. My response was ok then ill remove the gates and animals will then be able to walk in the foot path corridor which is not a great solution in my opinion.
I am then told if the animals / piggies walk in the corridor and cause a nuisance  then they will take action as people could be put of from walking the path. This pisses me right of as its a field with animals in !!!!
Next issue is one of the girls followed the footpath officer in to the corridor gate not closed properly by previous person ? Who knows. He states he felt uncomfortable and one tried to bite him. This is absolute rubbish they are curious they will follow and might nibble never bite I'm 100% certain of this as I raised them and I know my animals.
Now the council have come back and said they must be registered as dangerous animals as they are first generation hybrid wild boar. I say to them prove it !!! I am surrounded by free roaming wild boar thats not an issue and no licensing needed and no one takes responsibility. I have some possible crosses and I am penalised.
I spoke to a wild boar breeder in Scotland who tells me hybrid don't need licensing. However when I read the dangerous animals act I don't think that information is correct.
I refuse to be forced in to registering my pigs under the dangerous animals act this has huge implications the keeping and fencing.
My arguments are.
1. Any boar in the forest are already hybrids
2. Prove my pigs are first generation hybrid
3. Prove they have more than 50% boar DNA
I spoke to an ecologist for the boar/ deer trust who thinks it would be very difficult for the council to take enforcement.
Thoughts ?
All my pigs are PINK !
Little video you all might enjoy.
https://youtu.be/zpBalu9rOZI

[harmony]

Yes, placing gates on a right of way without permission is an obstruction.


You can ask the council to prove the pigs are not a wild boar cross but equally you can not prove they aren't. You have piglets and no boar has "legally" visited so there is a high chance they were served by wild boar.


Anyone who keeps animals on land with rights of way have the same issues and you will need to risk assess and mitigate. If you want to argue your case that's up to you but I would take advice from your insurers or a land agent.


Long term what are you doing to stop wild boar visiting again? You have more girls to attract them now?


I don't know about the legalities of registering sorry. British Pig Association would be a good one to contact.

[Fleecewife]

I love the video clip     I shall be sending that link to all my grandchildren 
I think your Marenna might be the cross - half dog, half pig  watching its behaviour, it does play like a pig, but then one of the pigs plays like a dog too!
Just looking at your pigs, yes they are all pink, but they are very obviously wild boar crosses, although no-one could judge the percentage - the long snouts and crest give it away.


I am really sorry you are having this problem with having Offa's Dyke crossing your land.  I suppose building a wooden bridge for the pigs would be too expensive?  I can't offer any advice on legalities as I don't know anything about it.  It does seem ironic that you are surrounded by wild boar, but yours are judged to be the danger 
Clearly the footpath officer has no idea about pig behavior and was already set against you.  I know this must be heartbreaking for you, but it would make sense to offer a reasonable and compliant front to officialdom in an effort to get them on your side. You are clearly angry (as well you might be) but you have to resist being confrontational for the good of your happy piggies and dog.  Might the fact that you have a guardian dog for your pig herd be seen as a plus point, or would it make matters even worse and you're better not to mention it?  I don't know which.


I so hope you can get this sorted - your place seems idyllic 

[SmallWelshBarn]

I have stock proof fence surrounding my land. The fence line where the boar came in has been secured never the less if they want in they will get in.
That fence line and the covenant to fence is down to the woodland trust getting them to act is a job in its self.
Any boar kept in captivity or first generation hybrid has to be registered under the dangerous animal act.
However the grey area is are the boar in the forest if dean true wild boar ? The answer I am told is no. The FoD boar are escapees and were boar hybrids to start with.
Thus my piggies are not first generation boar hybrids. I’m told it’s down to the local council to prove different.
I spoke with the Forest of Dean local council who frankly were pragmatic and gave great advice. I then spoke to Monmouthshire who were rather clueless and said they would need to take advice and speak to Glouster as they have more experience.
I don’t have a land manager it’s just me. I would consider cows far more dangerous than small pigs frankly.
I like my animals to be free range this is the country side. If people don’t enjoy animals sick to the city !   

[harmony]

I'm sure the public enjoy your pigs. It's your decision. I assume you have public liability insurance so ask for their advice on what they suggest on protecting yourself.


If you can prove the pigs in the FoD are not wild boar then you should be ok?

[SmallWelshBarn]

Yes I have public liability insurance. As for the boar that’s now down to the council to argue the point but any argument they make will need to be factual based via a DNA test etc.
I won’t be forced by some jobs-worthy pen pusher especially as the boar roam all around me in the forest which is open access land. I wonder what the liability insurance is like for the woodland trust or forestry commission. 

[bj_cardiff]

Love the vid

I was slightly suprised not to see any striping on the the piglets, I would of thought 1st gen Hybrids would carry that marking?

I think if I was you I would just admit defeat with the council. They have the funds and time to make a big issue if they want to. I would keep the pigs in the lower field during the nights and let them across the dyke every morning and evening.

[harmony]

Yes I have public liability insurance. As for the boar that’s now down to the council to argue the point but any argument they make will need to be factual based via a DNA test etc.
I won’t be forced by some jobs-worthy pen pusher especially as the boar roam all around me in the forest which is open access land. I wonder what the liability insurance is like for the woodland trust or forestry commission.

As landowners the Woodland Trust and Forest Enterprise will have liability insurance but they don't own the pigs that have been released/dumped in there. And anyway that doesn't affect your responsibilities as a pig keeper.

[landroverroy]

Lovely video. I would be tempted to send it to the Footpath Officer - or better still to his boss! I always find it helps to go to the fountain head if you feel you are dealing with a mistaken and self opinionated minion. But, as Fleecewife says, it is best not to appear confrontational.


As I believe you already know - it is not for you to prove your innocence, but for the council to prove your guilt. It could prove difficult for a stranger to take DNA from a fair sized pig.  

I've often found in my personal disputes with authority that basically they have to justify their existence and tick the relevant boxes. So it helps to give a bit so they feel they've won, as they don't get paid any extra to win the complete battle. It's probably not worth arguing about the wild boars elsewhere (although it would seem relevant) as their issue is your land and the footpath thereon.  So maybe give in about the gates, which it sounds like you will have to anyway. Can you not have gates that separate your land from the footpath, but when you open them to 90 degrees they close off the footpath so you can take your pigs from one side to the other? 

The fact that the footpath officer felt intimidated by a pig would not seem sufficient reason to have her designated as a wild animal. If he were frightened by sheep and cattle would they be reclassified also? 

Hopefully you'll be able to sort things out with the help of the Forest of Dean Council and I wish you the best of luck.

[harmony]

Love the vid

I was slightly suprised not to see any striping on the the piglets, I would of thought 1st gen Hybrids would carry that marking?

I think if I was you I would just admit defeat with the council. They have the funds and time to make a big issue if they want to. I would keep the pigs in the lower field during the nights and let them across the dyke every morning and evening.

Generally speaking a white sow served by a coloured boar will produce piglets that are generally white with some darker patching. If you cross a large white sow with a saddleback boar I don't think you would ever get anything that was marked like a saddleback.

[bj_cardiff]

Generally speaking a white sow served by a coloured boar will produce piglets that are generally white with some darker patching.

I thought that the Wild Boar (and Mangolotza)  were slightly different in that they passed stripes to their piglets, which fade as they get older? I've brought Mangolitza crosses before who were all striped?

[Black Sheep]

Sorry to hear you are having these problems.

Unfortunately I don't think opinions from an online forum are going to provide "the" answer. There are nuanced points of law to determine, such as the whether your pigs are first generation hybrids, whose responsibility is it to determine whether an animal needs to be registered under the DWA act, and so on. Establishing these could become extremely expensive.

Making changes to footpaths, which you openly state you have done, is something that should not be done without the relevant permissions. This is a pretty important principle as there are way too many unscrupulous landowners who want to try and put people off using the footpaths on their land and do things to discourage them. It is important to understand that this is the lens through which footpath officials see the world. If you stand in their shoes and look at the fencing and gates and consider the context they operate in, then you must surely see how that is the impression you have given them.

In terms of biting, pigs do it. How they act with you is not necessarily how they will behave with every other human they encounter. Plus you accept that they "might nibble" - that is the same thing as biting to someone not used to your pigs or pigs in general. I imagine it could be quite unsettling to have them use their mouths to interact with them, especially if they are then in a confined space with no easy exit.

It may be worth doing two things, and please take this in the spirit it is suggested, which is to try and help you resolve things.

1. Think about how you are handling the interactions you have with "officialdom". Your posts come across as escalating quite quickly - dismissive of the reports of the footpath official who felt uncomfortable and tarnishing them all as "jobs-worthy pen pushers". You have also gone ahead and undertaken works without consulting with those who should have been involved.

2. Reflecting on how you could make a strong case for the type of arrangements you want to have in place. So, how do you get the footpath official back on side - because if you can do that then it looks to me like your problem goes away. They are most interested in ensuring that rights of way are kept accessible and used. You want to ensure that people using the right of way are kept on the right path and remain safe (from their perception, regardless of any debated risk from the livestock). There are ways to achieve both of these.

You could look at how you will ensure the footpath (and Offa's Dyke Way is a pretty important one) will be as unobstructed as possible. For example you could offer to replace any existing stiles and kissing gates (which are often in poor repair or less accessible to people with mobility issues) with something more up to date - self-closing galvanised footpath gates for example. You could offer to improve the signage of the footpath so that people can clearly see the route throughout your land. You could review the gates you have put in and see if there are better alternatives for footpath users - even perhaps asking the footpath official what would be best to use.

Do the gates on the footpath need to be closed and the route for stock to be open all the time, or could it be the other way round - e.g. the footpath is unobstructed except when you close the gates to move stock from one side to another? That approach might actually support a grazing rotation that would be desirable anyway.

You will need to demonstrate how you will ensure that the fenced footpath does not become overgrown (as there will be no grazing pressure if animals are excluded). Up front you should be describing how you would monitor it and act if it was getting like this.

You can strengthen your case by including biosecurity as a concern - especially given the risk of African Swine Fever arriving in the UK. Offa's Dyke Way is a popular tourist route and it is certainly foreseeable that someone who has enjoyed walking in the countryside of parts of Europe where ASF occurs could also be walking ODW. The footpath would be closed if ASF occurred.

Are there any other ways to enhance the experience of footpath users? Would the council like to be able to put up information posts with a map to show people where the path goes or to provide some context to the historical nature of ODW? You could offer to provide sites for these. What about a simple bench to enjoy the view? Could you provide a site for that?

Who knows, you could even find that the footpath people offer you funding, labour or materials to make changes. It is worth looking online at the footpath "rules" as you will find information on how much the council is meant to pay you, the landowner, towards maintenance and so on. Our council footpath officers came out to site, walked them with me, listened to the changes I was considering and why (same reasons as you - keep people on the path rather than traipsing all over my fields and keep stock where they should be), and gave feedback. They allowed us to make some changes and provided over £500 worth of galvanised gates and probably £100+ worth of signage at no cost to me.

Good luck :-)

[harmony]

Generally speaking a white sow served by a coloured boar will produce piglets that are generally white with some darker patching.

I thought that the Wild Boar (and Mangolotza)  were slightly different in that they passed stripes to their piglets, which fade as they get older? I've brought Mangolitza crosses before who were all striped?

Mangalitza's were produced by crossing with wild boar. They are maybe closely enough related still to produce striped piglets rather than our domesticated pigs? Iron age piglets are striped but then Tamworth sows aren't white.

[harmony]

Lovely video. I would be tempted to send it to the Footpath Officer - or better still to his boss! I always find it helps to go to the fountain head if you feel you are dealing with a mistaken and self opinionated minion. But, as Fleecewife says, it is best not to appear confrontational.


As I believe you already know - it is not for you to prove your innocence, but for the council to prove your guilt. It could prove difficult for a stranger to take DNA from a fair sized pig.  

I've often found in my personal disputes with authority that basically they have to justify their existence and tick the relevant boxes. So it helps to give a bit so they feel they've won, as they don't get paid any extra to win the complete battle. It's probably not worth arguing about the wild boars elsewhere (although it would seem relevant) as their issue is your land and the footpath thereon.  So maybe give in about the gates, which it sounds like you will have to anyway. Can you not have gates that separate your land from the footpath, but when you open them to 90 degrees they close off the footpath so you can take your pigs from one side to the other? 

The fact that the footpath officer felt intimidated by a pig would not seem sufficient reason to have her designated as a wild animal. If he were frightened by sheep and cattle would they be reclassified also? 

Hopefully you'll be able to sort things out with the help of the Forest of Dean Council and I wish you the best of luck.

Someone complains about gates on a path that shouldn't be there and someone goes to investigate - seems reasonable to me. They felt intimidated by the pig following them - that's not unreasonable either. Many people are intimidated by animals following them be it dogs, sheep, horses etc. The footpath officer didn't designate the pigs a wild animal because of that. Someone told them they were wild boar crosses, be it the owner, neighbour, member of the public who stopped to chat to the owner one day or maybe there was a slight chance they knew about pigs and recognised a wild boar cross. Other than pointing the law with access and dangerous animal legislation I don't know what they did wrong. The fact the owner doesn't like it isn't the footpath officers fault.

[SmallWelshBarn]

The council can’t designate an animals as dangerous. The animal is designated the status from its origins.
The issue I have is I am not willing to allow my animals to be classed as in the dangerous animal list. This has a knock on affect with rules relating to fencing etc.
I have gates to protect the public from animal interaction which I think is sensible. It’s easy for me to remove the gates then animals and people will interact more whether it’s pigs sheep goats horses what ever is using the land.
This is my setup which is I spent a lot of money on to try and protect my animals.
https://youtu.be/d0BlPDEyMKQ