[tommytink]

Currently not had to do any general injections (apart from an intramuscular injection with a massive needle  ) as part of my management programme. So, first off, Heptavac - I give this to the ewes 4 to 6 weeks before lambing. So would I do this four weeks before the expected lambing date of my first ewe? That should then cover the rest of them in the 4-6 week prior period.
The Ovivac - I give the first dose to lambs around 3 weeks old? Then a second dose 4-6 weeks later?
Lastly, I was looking at the injectors - any recommendations? I wanted a sterimatic type one - are they any good?

[bj_cardiff]

Some people swear by vaccinating and some (myself included) have vaccinated for years but stopped and haven't noticed any difference in mortality. So to vaccinate or not is very much a judgement call!

Heptavac is an initial dose, followed by a BOOSTER 4-6 weeks before lambing, so you should dso your sheep with an initial dode now. The full instructions should be availiable online or will be with the bottle. I would do 4-6 weeks before the first ewe is due, I really don't like handling the ewes to much late in pregnancy

[Backinwellies]

Like  all vaccinations  you don't see any need until you suffer losses … then it is too late! (goes for humans too!).   

You can do what bj suggests …. but they do need an initial double dose ……. then would need the booser …. so maybe do 2 doses prior to lambing ?

file:///C:/Users/Linda/AppData/Local/Microsoft/Windows/INetCache/IE/CF65HZA0/Pasturella_and_Clostridial_disease_vaccination_tcm80-185585.pdf

Depending on your system and number of lambs Ovivac can be a saving or not.   As half of my 20 ish lambs are female and pedigree so kept for breeding I just heptovac P all the lambs too.   If lambs all off for slaughter then Ovivac would be your choice.

[Rosemary]

We hear a lot about "herd immunity" in relation to humans. Does the same apply to ther species? If a significant number of people choosenot tho vaccinate their animals, will that ultimately have a detrimental effect on the wider herd health?
Re choice of vaccine, Heptavac covers more diseases but is more expensive, although £1 a dose is pretty good value, I think.
We just use Heptavac regardless of the future for the lambs - breeding or meat. We rarely have more than a bottle's worth of lambs. If I had 30 lambs, say, I might buy a bottle of both and use Ovovac or Lambivac on the tup destined for meat.

[Scarlet.Dragon]

We hear a lot about "herd immunity" in relation to humans. Does the same apply to ther species? If a significant number of people choosenot tho vaccinate their animals, will that ultimately have a detrimental effect on the wider herd health?
Re choice of vaccine, Heptavac covers more diseases but is more expensive, although £1 a dose is pretty good value, I think.
We just use Heptavac regardless of the future for the lambs - breeding or meat. We rarely have more than a bottle's worth of lambs. If I had 30 lambs, say, I might buy a bottle of both and use Ovovac or Lambivac on the tup destined for meat.

I think "herd immunity" counts for virus transmissions in all species (e.g. 'flu or rabies) but not for the clostridials (e.g. tetanus or botulism) which are bacterial and ever present in the environment.

I concur with Backinwellies; vaccinations are like insurance - you hope you'll never need the cover they give but it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Anyone who has ever seen an animal suffering a clostridial disease, would be unlikely to opt out of vaccinations in future.  It's not a pleasant way to die.  Here's a link to a Facebook post from an Australian keeper of a kid that went down with tetanus following disbudding.

https://www.facebook.com/1017325078296093/photos/a.1040844259277508/2875345909160658/?type=3&theater

Why would anyone deliberately take a risk that one of their animals would land up like this? 

[Buttermilk]

I have seen 2 horses, 1 cow and 1 goat die of tetanus.  I also know of a pony that recovered after intensive nursing and huge vet bills.  Vaccination all the way here.

[tommytink]

Okay so maybe I’m misunderstanding the vaccs.
All my sheep are already on the Heptavac system, so will only be due their annual booster.
But the lambs... I thought Ovivac was a lamb version of
Heptavac but in looking further I don’t think this is right, is it? The same company produces both products and that’s the way their info leaflet made it look! Anyway, am I right in thinking if you’re not keeping lambs and just raising to go to slaughter that Ovivac may be slightly cheaper option? I’m definitely not on a commercial scale where this would make a difference and if Hep is the most comprehensive vaccs I’d rather go for that. So is the dose the same for lambs- one at 3+ weeks and again 4-6 weeks later? I don’t want to risk any type of illness I can prevent.

[twizzel]

Ovivac is cheaper per dose but only comes in 100ml or bigger bottles (50 doses = 100ml). Heptavac comes in a smaller pack size of 50ml (25 doses). So if you’re doing a small quantity of lambs, you’ll need a bottle each time you jab them as they don’t keep. So you might as well do them with heptavac. I did 35 lambs this year with the plan of keeping 12 of them, it was cheaper to do all 35 with heptavac.

[CarolineJ]

And sometimes even when they've had the vaccine they still come down with something - I knew the lady I got Wonky Sheep from, she lives on the other side of the bay and her flock was vaccinated.  Three weeks after I bought some gimmers off her, this happened:  https://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=91854.0

[shep53]

Not sure why you posted this as there is nothing that can prevent Listeriosis

[Womble]

Okay so maybe I’m misunderstanding the vaccs.

No, actually I think you've understood perfectly - you just don't know it yet!  

> All my sheep are already on the Heptavac system, so will only be due their annual booster.

Correct.

>But the lambs... I thought Ovivac was a lamb version of
>Heptavac but in looking further I don’t think this is right, is it?


No, they're slightly different. As Rosemary says, Heptavac is a bit more expensive and usually used for breeding stock. However, because the smallest bottle available does 25 does (and doesn't keep once opened), most smallholders just use heptavac for all of their sheep.


Info on how to administer heptavac is here. For your lambs, "Heptavac P Plus should not be used in lambs less than 3 weeks of age due to the possible immunological incompetence of the very young lamb and competition from any maternally derived colostral antibodies. Lambs being retained for fattening or subsequent breeding will require a full course of vaccination. At a minimum age of 3 weeks these lambs should receive two injections, each of 2.0 ml, separated by an interval of 4-6 weeks. It should be noted that Heptavac P Plus is the recommended vaccine for breeding stock since it provides optimal aid in the control of the predominant clostridial diseases in adult sheep by active immunisation and in young lambs by passive immunisation."

Then adult sheep get their annual booster 4-6 weeks before they're expected to lamb (just do tups and gimmers at the same time). Doing that maximises the antibodies present in their colostrum, which helps to protect the lambs until they are old enough to be vaccinated and hence develop their own immunity.

We use a sterimatic to give the doses - there are some useful learning points here from a few years ago. Ewes get it in the neck, but following advice on here, I now inject our lambs over the ribcage instead, since that's a bit less wriggly. I can now do this job on my own with a minimum of fuss. The procedure is, catch lamb and stick its head between your knees. That immobilises it, but also gives you both hands free. Then make a "tent" of skin over the ribs and inject using the sterimatic. Then I have a crayon hanging on a retractable cord around my neck, which I use to mark the head of the lamb to show he's been done before letting him go.

Also, because we're only doing a small number of sheep at a time, I now don't use the "proper" needles or stericaps with the sterimatic gun. Instead, I use the needleguard (the screw on springy bit) as normal, but just use a standard 1" needle and no stericap. This works just fine for a small number  of sheep and also saves some money.

HTH!

[tommytink]

Thank you Womble - very comprehensive which is always a massive help. Funnily enough I had come across your old sterimatic post before I posted here! So stupid question, obvs you bought a Mole Valley version - different companies do a “sterimatic” injector? Because I’ve seen there is an actual company called Sterimatic too. Prob overthinking as usual. A search for a sterimatic gun brings up a few different brands.
Coincidentally I am building a Mole Valley order so if their gun is good enough I’ll grab that. Someone I know showed me theirs - the bottle sort of sat/screwed into the top and a dose was administered with every squeeze.
When you give the injection to the ewe do you pinch the skin and inject into it? I’m going to try and find some tutorials on it so I can watch online. My first attempt at drenching was pretty bad - the other half had more of a knack and I let him carry on instead of watching his way and trying again  - so want to make sure I know how. There is prob a sheep person who could help too so will definitely get it right!
This is obvs our first year lambing. Got to put a lambing kit together and everything! Should do that with my Mole Valley order - got the marker spray to number my outdoor lambers (prior to lambing) as was suggested on another thread, and a crayon/chalk marker like you have Womble to mark sheep that have been “done” with meds etc. Previously I’ve given them a little squirt of gentian violet. Anything to make sure I don’t double up.
Think I’ll just go with the Hep P for everyone to keep it simple.

[Womble]

It sounds like you're doing just fine then.

I've only used the mole valley injector, but it's worked absolutely fine for us. I'm sure you'll find some videos online to show how to do it - search for "sub-cutaneous injection". Also, why not go out with the gun and practice the method without any needle fitted? That way you'll see how it works.


Basically you want to be going in at a shallow enough angle to go between the skin and muscle. One thing to watch is that (particularly with lambs), it's possible to have the needle go in one side of a fold of skin and out of the other. If that happens, you'll see the vaccine on the surface of the wool. The nice thing is that if you don't see that, and you don't see vaccine on the inside of the sterimatic around the needle then you know it must have gone where it was meant to!!