[Fowgill Farm]

Nic
I still stand by what i said a lot of what happened to your sow was preventable. I'll stay in the bad baby corner may make my back ease off a bit!
You don't need to keep pedigree pigs just to keep records even if yours aren't you can still make them individual record cards to make notes, keep service and birth records, weights, medicines etc even easier if you're au fait with an excel spread sheet.
My standards are high (too high according to my OH) and the trouble is i expect all others to meet those standards, as i have said i can only judge by what you write and apologise for any offfence given but sometimes strong words give people that kick up the backside they need to up their game. Not necessarily you but others reading these comments.
Mandy 

[HappyHippy]

You may not be akin with OSBs but they tend to have smaller litters than some  other pigs, which obviously don't show as much.


No they are not pedigree unfortunately, we did think about it, but decided against it, just because I'm just a small-holder, and not looking for anything on a large scale.

Here I come to disagree       (no hard feelings though eh ?  )
 
My OSB gilt's first litter was 10, and to a Kunekune boar    (naughty 'lil begger did the dirty when we weren't looking  ) She's due her second litter in the middle of July, so it'll be interesting to see if we have less this time round with pure OSB's. I think all pigs are capeable of giving good litters, providing the conditions and feeding are right for them - and the boar is doing a good job in the foreplay department (nudging the belly lots to release the eggs  )
 
I'm also a bit of a pedigree freak   
Can I explain my thinking though....
All pigs cost the same to feed and keep whether they are ped's or not, quality pedigree stock usually sells better than crosses or unregistered pigs. You certainly have the BPA membership to think about, but if you're breeding big numbers (and I'd class 10 sows as big numbers  )  it probably only works out at an extra £1 per piglet or even less - worth it I think, for the sake of being able to sell your pork by breed name (theoretically you could be prosecuted by trading standards if you sell unregistered pigs as OSB's and the same with the pork) It also gives you the option of showing your pigs, upping your profile and adding yourself to the BPA database when people are looking for pigs. Also, by registering them, they all count towards the breed numbers held by the BPA - and it might* just give you some kind of protection from culling if there was ever to be another major disease outbreak in the country.
*There are loads of proviso's with this and it's far from guarenteed - but they stand a better chance if they're registered as a rare breed than if they have nothing.
 
Mandy, I'm not always so diplomatic - remember the micro pig posts   
I've upset a few people in my time too, just ask Robert & Stevie G   
It is hard to stay calm when it's a subject everyone feels so passionately about    My wee motto is "speak to others as you'd want to be spoken to yourself" (but even then, I don't always manage it      ) I'll send you some reiki for your back - I just knew you weren't feeling yourself today 
Karen x

[NicAlford1234]

I don't mean to say that OSBs can't have large litters, but considering that with her second litter there were only 3, and all survived, and on average OSBs farrow 6-9 piglets*, I was saying that 17 is a very large litter, and so the signs would be more obvious than a sow with only 3. ALso, I have no idea what the piglets were like, I just saw the 'tell-tale' signs that she had farrowed, which was confirmed by a local pig farmer, and also saw half of a piglet hanging out of the boar's mouth.
*according to 'Choosing and Keeping Pigs - Linda McDonald-Brown'.

I think pedigree would be something to look in to, however I live on my dad's farm and he is not fussed about pedigree and so I suppose this has rubbed off on me. I appreciate that you can sell them for more money and all the other benefits, but with a recent litter, I found it very difficult to find any buyers at all. Oh, and I don't have 10 sows! Definitely not, I have 4 sows, a boar, 3 piglets and 3 weaners... Just to clear that up!! But registering with the BPA is definitely something I am looking in to, as is registering with the Oxford Sandy and Black Society.

I appreciate, Mandy, that you are passionate about the welfare of pigs, but aren't we all? Is that not part of the point in this forum? I wouldn't have asked for advice if I wasn't worried about her. However, your apology is accepted, and thank you for the previous advice.

[robert waddell]

well explained karen  but you dont upset me  i think i upset you more   is that correct

[robert waddell]

4 is still quite a big number of sows  even a Small litter  with 1-3 there are signs and even the bagging up is an indication more attention to detail   

[Fowgill Farm]

So long as sow is ok thats all that matters,
mandy 
ps get a better book than LMB    The others will explain!

[NicAlford1234]

Someone explain??

Yes, I would like to remind you that this was about 9 months ago now, and I'm more worried about her swellings and sores than her past. So you reckon I should put some sort of soothing cream on her, and wean the piglets?

[Pel]

Been out of working with breeding pigs for a number of years now (was a small herd 10 sow, 2 boars,), but still occasionally sit for smallholders with pigs (meat and breeders).

So looking through all my beginner pig books (4) the only one that says litter numbers is the linda mcdonald-brown one. You say you have 4 sows, what did they have on their maiden litters? The OSB breeder i know generally gets between 9-12 for her litters (she has been breeding for over 20 years with 10+ sows). Pigs in general have a smaller litter for first litter (the books say), but I know several who actually have smaller litters for their 2nd, but pick up again for their 3rd.

Most litters we had were weaned at 6-7 weeks (depending on sow's condition). So yes 8 weeks is fine, this may be why your sow's teats look rough, as the piglets are still on her. As someone said you can usually buy weaners at 8 weeks old (which should have been weaned for 5+ days before hand). I think the BPA reccomends weaning from 8 weeks (is that still the same?). The sow's milk production peaks at 5 weeks, and rapidly goes down, I think by 8 weeks the piglets are meant to be getting 70% of nutrients from pellet/grain feed and 30% will come from sow's milk (re-worded from The growing and finishing pig: improving effiecieny by English, fowler, baxter and smith)

We always used to take the sow away from the other pigs, about 2 weeks beforehand.. there were occasional mistakes of course where she was left in too long, and we had to transport the piglets in a wheelbarrow, but the sow would have always been moved to a seperate area (just not "indoors").
I've only come across one sow that was hard to tell when she was due and that was a Tamworth (and one of Linda's too), she was producing milk and her bags were full, yet there was no piglets for quite a long time afterwards. But even with those signs you can take her out (the tammy was already on her own)

Yes to soothing cream, and manage her food carefully. How does she look condition wise? since only rearing the 3 piglets.

[NicAlford1234]

One sow had 9, 2 born dead. Another had 8 all alive and the last one is recently bought as a gilt, so no maiden litter yet.
Yes, they are definitely eating her food as well as milk, so will wean them off ASAP.  How do you suggest I manage her food? Shes good apart from the sores, not to thin.

[HappyHippy]

well explained karen  but you dont upset me  i think i upset you more   is that correct

Hmmm, yes, probably Robert    There are times when your comments just seem so obnoxious and derogatory to me that I just can't help but get upset - but I have a new way of dealing with you when on-line    I'll just stick my fingers in my ears and ignore you, til I see you face to face and then, if I'm feeling feisty I'll give as good as I get    And I'll have Bruce to hold my jacket 
See you Friday btw (with my boxing gloves  )
 
Nic, post weaning I'd cut her ration to 3lbs for the first day, then gradually up it - but only to around 5lbs (increase it over the course of a week minimum) See how she goes at that, if she looks to be getting too fat or too thin you can adjust accordingly - but 5lbs seems to be a good 'holding' amount for my wee OSB.
HTH
Karen