[scruffbag]

We are looking at getting a flock of sheep some time soon, i've been watching the auction rings but something still confuses me. The term i'm looking for clarification on is "3 crop theaves". I know a theave or gimmer is a shearling ewe having not had a lamb, But what is the "3 crop" does it mean its expecting 3 lambs. The price they achieve is lowish, is this due to the fact she'll have twins and then have a cade lamb on the holding which commercial farms don't want?
Cheers
Scruffbag

[SteveHants]

Dunno - we don't tend to use 'theaves' round here and as far as I am concerned a three-crop is a ewe who has had three crops of lambs, so in most cases would be full mouthed.

[jaykay]

No, 3 crop means its had lambs for three years in a row.

The 'theave' bit can mean that it wasn't tupped as a lamb itself, but around 18 months, when it was a theave/gimmer shearling or whatever they're called by you.

So a 3 crop theave had her first crop at 2, second at 3, third at 4 ..... so is getting on a bit.

[SteveHants]

No, 3 crop means its had lambs for three years in a row.

The 'theave' bit can mean that it wasn't tupped as a lamb itself, but around 18 months, when it was a theave/gimmer shearling or whatever they're called by you.

So a 3 crop theave had her first crop at 2, second at 3, third at 4 ..... so is getting on a bit.

Thats almost exactly what I said.....

[jaykay]

Yes, just agreeing in a long-winded sort of a way  The 'no' was to scruffbag not you 

[bangbang]

At the mart in Aberdeeenshire it's almost impossible to understand what the hell is
being said, the doric/scottish dialect is not easy to pick up.
you just  and hope that when he's/she are fiished that you've
got the sheep/goat that you bid for!

[Fronhaul]

I remember buying a pony at Aberdeen many years ago.  I don't think I have ever been more confused in my life.  Harry Sleigh of the Wells Stud came up to me afterwards and shook my hand and thanked me for buying one of his colts.  No I replied I bought one of your fillies.  After several minutes it became apparent that colts were foals of either sex..........

[Rosemary]

I wouldn't rule out buying some of these older ewes. If their udders are sound and they have all their teeth, they might be a good buy for a beginner. Our oldest ewes were born 2007, tupped 2008 and have had four crops of lambs - all have good udders, good teeth and spit out the lambs without noticing.

[daveh]

Rosemary,
As long as a ewe is sound, at what age would you reckon she is past producing good lambs?
Regards, Dave

[jaykay]

It depends so much on where you are.

I'm at 1000ft, on poor grazing, in a very wet part of the country. So I didn't keep commercial sheep past 5 shear. I may need to rethink this for my primitives.

But my Dad, lower down on better grazing, had a Masham ewe who produced triplets for him every year for 10 years and survived another two, retired. He regularly keeps sheep to 8 shear.

It's common for folk round here to sell draft ewes to lowland farms at 4 and 5 shear, where clearly they go on to have several more crops of lambs.

[shetlandpaul]

when we bought our first sheep one was an old lady with possibly one more lambing in her. that was 5 years ago and she is still doing well. just keep an eye on there condition and feed extra if needed. if your just keeping a few the economics of production dont apply.

[SteveHants]

It also depends on the breed.


In a lowland situation most mules are done by 4 because there teeth have fallen out or something, lleyns can be routineley kept until 6 and so on. I have ewes who raised lambs just fine for me and are 9 odd. I wouldnt cull on age alone, I tend to treat each ewe on an individual basis, I gob and bag all of those over 4 pre-tupping and I kick out any brokers, lumpy udders or poor doers and go from there. I like to know who has raised lambs for a long time because I would like to keep her daughters.


Re: buying full mouthed ewes, I think it is a splendid idea, unless you are looking to put them on a hill. You can buy on farm from a person who has a similar system to you and you know they have raised lambs for x number of years hopefully without problem. Try to buy from someone who is getting rid because he is keen to bring some of his home-bred young replacements into the flock (I know this is hard to ascertain the truth of 100%, but going to his farm to look about should help). Buy them at a tenner over cull price, get a couple of lamb crops out of them for replacements etc and flog them as culls and your flock depreciation will be minimal.

[ZacB]

It also depends on the breed.
Buy them at a tenner over cull price, get a couple of lamb crops out of them for replacements etc and flog them as culls and your flock depreciation will be minimal.

Out of interest....and I sort of know this is going to depend on a number of factors......but how much is a cull price???

[moony]

Look on youre local auction market reports and you will get an idea of cull prices. Varies breed to breed.

[SallyintNorth]

Re: buying full mouthed ewes, I think it is a splendid idea, unless you are looking to put them on a hill. You can buy on farm from a person who has a similar system to you and you know they have raised lambs for x number of years hopefully without problem.

Excellent advice to start this way.     The ewes will know what they're doing, be used to your sort of conditions and should do a good job for you without any fuss.

Check their teeth and udders yourself before taking them.

If you are offered hill sheep as 'drafts' (a draft ewe is one still fit for breeding; they can be being sold at 1- to 5- or even 6-crop), just be aware that moving hill sheep onto better ground can bring its own problems, as they are not used to the level of nutrients and it can upset their systems.  If you can, I'd do as Steve suggests and get your draft ewes from a farm as similar to yours as possible.