[Rosemary]

On books, if you are considering sheep, we always recommend Tim Tyne's "The Sheep Book for Smallholders" - out of print at the moment, but should be back in print soon (and available at the Scottish Smallholder and Grower Festival).

Tim is currently writing a book on viable self sufficiency, which I'll be buying when it comes out.

If you aren't constrained by location, consider coming North to Scotland. You'll get a warm welcome (and I don't mean burning down your cottage  ) and it's a good place to live IMHO. We also have free prescriptions, eye tests and dental checkups and a minimum price for alcohol  .

Make a wee holiday of it and come to the Scottish Smallholder and Grower Festival at Forfar on 30th September, meet some TASers and see a bit of the country

[Mel Rice]

Do you have to be UK based? There is cheap property elsewhere often with large out buildings (if in need of a lot of repair) elsewhere in Europe.

[Goat-Lady]

When we first bought our holding back in 2000. the offer was a house with 4 acres or house with 12 acres. Quess what we decided on, the 4 acre house and wish we had the 12 acres. I absolutely agree with the replies. Try and go for the larger acreage as you will soon fill a 1 or 2 acres plot.
Good Luck with your new adventure
 

[Fowgill Farm]

Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall's books are useful and well written.

I find him a bit aiming at the yuppy market thats grown for smallholding, sorry but i find he lost his way and fame went a bit to his head and hes just one big moneymaking outfit now.
Saying that he books are a good starting place. As Sally says John Seymours is good but some of the practices in it are outdated and some are downright illegal!
Go for as much land as you can afford, you can always rent it out if you can't use it yourself. Horsey & sheep people are always looking for grazing.
Mandy 
 

[Sylvia]

Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall's books are useful and well written.

I find him a bit aiming at the yuppy market thats grown for smallholding, sorry but i find he lost his way and fame went a bit to his head and hes just one big moneymaking outfit now.
Saying that he books are a good starting place. As Sally says John Seymours is good but some of the practices in it are outdated and some are downright illegal!
Go for as much land as you can afford, you can always rent it out if you can't use it yourself. Horsey & sheep people are always looking for grazing.
Mandy 
 
I've heard he's gone a bit money-minded but his book "The River Cottage Cookbook" is basic and practical and to the point(and aren't most folk going back to the land these days a bit "yuppy")
 

[Mickey]

Rosemary's right about the quality of the land. When we were looking for our smallholding we saw several properties that had very steep land, or very shaded, or wet or wooded. In one case, all four of these. I couldn't have done much with them however many acres there were.

In the end we have started with 2 acres of good flat permanent pasture. This is enough to raise two weaners ,two lambs, several chickens and lots of fruit and veg growing. We've just put up a 25x12 ft polytunnel and so far it is definitely keeping us occupied for most of each day.

This site is great for learning all that is needed. Also Country Smallholder magazine. Also worth checking your library for the many books that have now been written about smallholding.

Thanks for that Possum, am beginning to think 2 acres may be enough but just have this lingering doubt knowing how much my wife enjoys animals :-)

[Mickey]

Sometimes properties with more land sell more cheaply than 2 acres. You can always rent some out. Good luck with your new adventure.

Thanks for that, looking at some webpages of 'smallholdings for sale' earlier tonight and noticed the amount of land was not always a good guide of price. Much to learn :-)

[Mickey]

Hi  ,  If you are wanting to do fruit/veg and keep a few chickens, then 2 acres will keep you occupied for most of the day - especially if you have a nice polytunnel to work in  .  ....... Good luck and enjoy the lifestyle

Thanks Bramblecot, very useful info for us as starting intentions are for chickens, 2 x pigs and 5 dogs, I've no idea why 5 in particular but the boss wants 5!

[lachlanandmarcus]

Bear in mind the most expensive things to sort out are (i) fencing (ii) putting up any buildings you need.
We have 40 acres and 30 of it still doesnt have stock proof fencing 5 years in, nor is our barn up (mind you it nearly was but unfortunately there are some dodgy types in the steel building game :-(()
However, we do have 10 acres ish fenced, and 30 acres of uninterrupted views, and we can make hay off the unfenced part so it was still def worth it esp with winter feed costs rising and a poor harvest possible - we know we can feed our horses and livestock on wonderful hay.
We werent aiming to get 40 acres but having no neighbours within view is pretty cool (they are nice but its still nice to own your view).
I would say get more land than you think you will need - you will never lose by it as you pay less per acre the more acres you buy. And you can always rent it out if you dont want to use it all yourself.

[jaykay]

I would say get more land than you think you will need - you will never lose by it as you pay less per acre the more acres you buy

I agree - especially if you have a wife who likes animals 

[Mickey]

Thanks to everybody for their reposes, so good to find everyone very helpful - what a great community!

You will pay more per acre for better quallity land, `severely dissadvantage` is the general clasification for most of our area (MidWales) but it does grow sheep well, Another thing to consider is the seasonal changes.....

Thanks tizaala, I hadn't heard the term severely disadvantaged before, good stuff!

How exciting to be at the beginning of your journey!

I would think 5 acres of good ground would probably be pretty tight if you want cows..... If you haven't come across it yet, the John Seymour Complete Book of Self-Sufficiency is a great book.....   Just make sure you read it with a very healthy helping of scepticism.

It is very exciting indeed, feels like a real privilege to be in this position. Thanks for the book rec, will look that up shortly.

Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall's books are useful and well written.

I will take a look at them, I have seen a lot of him on the TV but went off him a little as I much prefer his earlier stuff.

We have 40 acres, most of it unusable in its present state (needs clearing and fencing), but still I would love more land, just for all the possibilities that would come with it. Don't be put off by land that is unused and has overgrown. You will likely get it cheaper and you can clear it with pigs...

Hah hah hah!  I love it, just the picture of smallholding life that I imagine :-)
Thanks for all of those replies, will pass them all onto the boss to read also!

Mickey

[Mickey]

It's not so much how many acres you need, it's how much money will you have 'spare' after you have bought them to repair and renew everything that needs doing on your new place.

Take off your rosy coloured glasses. Your not going to earn a living off it unless your able to come up with a plan that no other local has going already.

If you find a place, besides the house look at the buildings and fences as they will add a huge amount to your spend.

Do not fall into the usual smallholder trap and carry passengers in livestock as it's pointless keeping an animal that earns it's keep to waste it on another that doesn't. Before you know where you are your a charity case for lost causes.

Stay focused, Check topography on the internet and save yourself hours and hours of traveling to the back of beyond for a place that is totally different to the speck that the estate agent sends you.

It took us 3 years and 36 visits to find the right place.

Thanks Castle Farm,
I was initially a bit miffed you thought we had rosy coloured glasses but your post is really helpful and full of good stuff, I'm not sure we will avoid the animal passenger trap though as part of the life for us will be to do our best for them. We are not looking for a business but a lifestyle that offers a healthier way of living. The bit about 3 years and 36 visits to find your right place did help us not feel so desperate to find somewhere, you are absolutely right that we should take our time.

Regards,
Mickey

[Mickey]

Most places with 2-3 acres are priced for lifestyle ie a couple of kiddies ponies or some homegrown veg and a few chickens.  It is possible to do more with it but most don't and the prices are high by comparison.  My advice would be to look at 10-15 acres if you can,

I'm getting the feel that starting with a couple of acres will only see us look for something bigger later, I need to visualise just how much a couple of acres is and compare it to 10. I'd like some space for a nice garden by the house so wonder if 2 acres would soon become 1 as the other half of it became lost to my garden!

On books, if you are considering sheep, we always recommend Tim Tyne's "The Sheep Book for Smallholders" - out of print at the moment, but should be back in print soon (and available at the Scottish Smallholder and Grower Festival).

Tim is currently writing a book on viable self sufficiency, which I'll be buying when it comes out.

If you aren't constrained by location, consider coming North to Scotland. You'll get a warm welcome (and I don't mean burning down your cottage  ) and it's a good place to live IMHO. We also have free prescriptions, eye tests and dental checkups and a minimum price for alcohol  .

Make a wee holiday of it and come to the Scottish Smallholder and Grower Festival at Forfar on 30th September, meet some TASers and see a bit of the country

Do you have to be UK based? There is cheap property elsewhere often with large out buildings (if in need of a lot of repair) elsewhere in Europe.

I think UK yes, whilst we have travelled quite a lot out thought is UK or Australia, but seeing as Oz make it difficult to emigrate it will be the UK.

When we first bought our holding back in 2000. the offer was a house with 4 acres or house with 12 acres. Quess what we decided on, the 4 acre house and wish we had the 12 acres. I absolutely agree with the replies. Try and go for the larger acreage as you will soon fill a 1 or 2 acres plot.
Good Luck with your new adventure

Thanks Goat-Lady, I love the sound of 12 acres for some reason :-)

Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall's books are useful and well written.

I find him a bit aiming at the yuppy market thats grown for smallholding, sorry but i find he lost his way and fame went a bit to his head and hes just one big moneymaking outfit now.

That's how I have been finding him of late, but perhaps his earlier work will be good for me to read.

[Mickey]

If you aren't constrained by location, consider coming North to Scotland.

You'll get a warm welcome (and I don't mean burning down your cottage  ) and it's a good place to live IMHO.

Make a wee holiday of it and come to the Scottish Smallholder and Grower Festival at Forfar on 30th September

Thanks Rosemary,
I have put the sheep book in my list to read.

We are looking at Scotland with a slight preference for the Borders area simply due to its location as it would be possible for us to research the area and properties easier due to its proximity to where we live in Cheshire. The area that keeps popping up on property searches is Dumfries and Galloway but I have been a bit 'put off' by the number of windmills going up in the area and therefore wonder if that is why property is so readily available in the region. 

I'd have no problem going further into Scotland also, we don't know the areas very well and are thinking that we need to be careful of things like the locations, weather, future developments etc.  There are some really good maps of the wind turbines going up in the Stranraer area and the whole thing has us a little concerned - well me at least :-)

The Festival sounds a good idea, getting the time off work may be difficult but it's in the diary as a possibility. Will you have a stand there?

Thanks so much for your kind help,
Mickey

[omnipeasant]

Are you scared yet, or just exited to get on with it.


We bought the first farm we looked at. Amazingly cheap in mid wales. 100 acres with buildings, but for the first year we rented some to a neighbour until we built our flock of sheep up.  This acreage sounds a lot, but it is all above 1,000feet so the grass doesn't grow until may and it is difficult to grow veg. Sheep love it and the horses don't get laminitis!

Try to see the place with a view to what it wil be like in winter and how wet the flat bits are! We are happy with our place and have managed to rent more flat ground for haylage.