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Author Topic: Parelli Natural Horsemanshit  (Read 32605 times)

Hardfeather

  • Guest
Parelli Natural Horsemanshit
« on: March 07, 2010, 08:44:02 am »
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyF2QqP29DU

This is Linda Parelli apparently teaching a bargy horse to respect its handler, and is part of a training dvd aimed at first entry students. :o


doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
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Re: Parelli Natural Horsemanshit
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2010, 09:05:53 am »
Is that how you normally train horses?  By hitting them? and tugging on their reins? ???
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Hermit

  • Joined Feb 2010
Re: Parelli Natural Horsemanshit
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2010, 09:17:52 am »
Looks very drastic but did not show the original problem so we can judge how bad the horse actually was. Hermit

sabrina

  • Joined Nov 2008
Re: Parelli Natural Horsemanshit
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2010, 10:12:09 am »
I have been training horses for over 40 years and all I can see here is a person teaching a horse how to be head shy, terrible. >:(

Hardfeather

  • Guest
Re: Parelli Natural Horsemanshit
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2010, 10:57:04 am »
It's certainly not how I train horses, and I am often called upon to handle/retrain horses which have become dangerous through lack of sensible handling, or by being similarly brutalised.

Hermit...if you knew that the horse's 'original problem' was its failure to understand what its novice handler was asking of it, and that it became resistant and bargy as a direct result of it having a rope swung in its face which it was unable to get away from, so that its only recourse was to barge into its handler, would you say this treatment of it was justified?

The horse has only one eye, the offside one, and, obviously feeling insecure in its surroundings, and with the constant jerking of the rope, and no indication from the handler that its responses were correct, it was bound to be inclined to look around for reassurance for its safety. Mrs P apparently is trying to get the horse to pay full attention to her, but in fact is only succeeding in causing the horse to be afraid and, as a result, to shut down. That's why it always wants to look away...what other option does it have.

The flapping of the hand toward its eye, and the occasional physical contact with its face are apparently the Parelli way to teach it to yield its forehand. In fact it only serves to make it headshy, and may actually cause the horse to resist to a greater degree than would more subtle means of teaching it that particular response.

This clip is all the more disturbing as it is part of a dvd aimed at entry level Parelli students who are novice horse handlers. Unfortunately, there are many who will buy into that method of horsemanship, and will believe that this is the way to treat a horse which shows resistance to their will.

In my opinion, it amounts to abuse of a horse by an idiot.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 11:22:38 am by AengusOg »

littlelisa

  • Joined Mar 2010
Re: Parelli Natural Horsemanshit
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2010, 11:26:21 am »
and people pay money for that??

Hermit

  • Joined Feb 2010
Re: Parelli Natural Horsemanshit
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2010, 11:57:49 am »
In the clip it does not give a problem or an outcome, just a harsh treatment. That is the problem of judging an obviously biased clip, it was put there to antagonise and get the reaction it has. God forbid all courts are run that way. But that is my problem, I listen to all sides and I do not know best at anything I am afraid. Hermit

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: Parelli Natural Horsemanshit
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2010, 12:08:09 pm »
The script on You tube is inaccurate. I have the DVD and there is nowhere on it that I recall that the horse has one eye. Unfortunately, there are those out there who are, frankly, jealous of the impact that the Parellis are making and therefore have a negative agenda and seek to portray the programme in a negative way. I call it sour grapes.

If you want to see the whole thing, Steve, I'll lend it to you and you can see it in context and make an informed opinion. Frankly, I'm disappointed that you've made such negative comments on such limited evidence.

juliag

  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Wanstrow somerset
Re: Parelli Natural Horsemanshit
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2010, 01:37:12 pm »
My problem I have with Parelli (and its a big one I am afraid) is that although this clip is quite frankly shocking but I can see Rosemarys point and we have not seen the whold dvd, My daughters have a Riding club lesson every week which is a group lesson, along with my girls is someone who practises the Parelli method on a young horse they have. Now where to start..............
First they have been practising the parelli method for many years both here and have taken training courses abroad so I would assume they are both competant and confident that they are using this method correctly.
Secondly they are a bloody pain in the ass, they work the horse on the ground with a rope for 10-15 mins at the start of the lesson, basically tossing the rope at it making it go backwards, sideways etc. this is whilst 3-4 other riders plus instructor are trying to begin the lesson and get going.
Then they mount and seem to go forwards 5-6 paces and then for some unknown reason to us all stop and using the rope reiny thing( lol) pull the horses head around until it is touching their foot, this is repeated on the other side 4-5 times before the horse is allowed to walk on. If the horse dares to jog etc (remember a group lesson is attempting to take place around them) it is pulled up and immediatley its head is swung around and its nose to boot again another 5-6 times.
I did attempt to ask why this was and was told the horse had to 'submit' to the rider at all times.
And what is all this achieving, well the horse has been in these lessons for about a year now, it is a little cob who seems to have a heart of cold and it breaks my heart to see them pretty much abuse him in this way. He is unbalenced as is the rider and although he tries to jump willingly the rider is hindering him all the time. Simple schooling with soft hands and a kind apprach is all that is needed. I have tried to learn a bit about this method but I am afraid I just cant see it, I am sorry Rosemary but it would take a lot to convert me as far as I have seen that you tube clip sums up everything I have seen about parelli. :(
juliag

Hellybee

  • Joined Feb 2010
    • www.blaengwawrponies.co.uk
Re: Parelli Natural Horsemanshit
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2010, 02:09:12 pm »
Echo Aengus :D

I lost respect for parelli when i saw piccies of the hubby having a foal jumping things.  For me that is wrong and from wht ive seen of this video regardless of the original behaviour of the horse there is no way that behaviour that this lady showed can justify anythng he did before.  Careful and forthright is the way to go, not bullying a horse into submission.  So what if he wanted to look the other way, that is no reason to yank continually by the head, spin it in circles and hit it on the head. 

Sure way to break a horses spirit,make it headshy and dis trusting.


« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 02:10:51 pm by Hellybee »

Hellybee

  • Joined Feb 2010
    • www.blaengwawrponies.co.uk
Re: Parelli Natural Horsemanshit
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2010, 02:14:14 pm »
Id rather see Kelly Marks et al doing things that involve common sense and  old school horsemanship :)

 

juliag

  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Wanstrow somerset
Re: Parelli Natural Horsemanshit
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2010, 02:18:55 pm »
.What is the official reasoning behind the parelli approach, because from what I see weekly is that the horses spirit is completly broken and submission is required at ALL times. Even when cooling down at the end of the lesson with the horses on a long rein, yes this poor little horse is on a long rein (in fact a long rein is used for most of the lesson) but if he meanders at all its back to the head on riders boot thing! And thats another point (off on one now I am!) as I have just said he is ridden on a long rein for most of the time , I guess he is supposed to be a mindreader as to where he should go, as the rider as hold of this 'rope' no aids or contact through the reins, and riders legs are ineffective, so as you can imagine poor unbalenced little cob being constantly reprimanded and I am sure he hasnt got a clue what he is doing wrong!

juliag

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: Parelli Natural Horsemanshit
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2010, 02:44:30 pm »
Juliag, the people you describe are not good Parelli practitioners. That should not condemn the programme. PNH is based on partnership but at the end of teh day, the human must take responsibility for leading as the horse is not equipped for the world into which we bring him. I also feel sorry for the horse you describe. When I rode, I used a rope halter and long rope - the idea is that you learn to guide the horse with leg and body position and use the reins only as support for the other aids. Bending the head is to improve suppleness and to act as a brake. I can bend my horse's head to his midline with a very light touch - I don't have to haul on his head at all. As regards the warmup, perhaps the instructor could as them to do their warmup prior to the lesson, which would be more courteous to the others. Your problem shoudl be with these individuals not with the programme itself, since you obviously know little about it.

I fail to see what the problem is with a foal jumping things - I assume it wasn't a course of show jumps and what do they do in the field or the wild? Get a ramp?

Kelly Marks has much to offer, although she also has her critics - her teaching is based on Monty Roberts, whose method and philosophy is not disimilar to that of the Parellis - understand a horse's behaviour and use commonsense, kindness, consistency and fairness - as understood by the horse not a human - is that not just horsemanship in it's best sense?

Hellybee

  • Joined Feb 2010
    • www.blaengwawrponies.co.uk
Re: Parelli Natural Horsemanshit
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2010, 03:05:01 pm »
hahah pf course they jump in the field but theres absolutely no reason to have a baby jumping cos its handler says so. 

I know that she is a protege of Monty, but wht i see in them is meeting half way, not a compromise between horse and handler but a middle ground that trust can be built on and a bond made.

What i see with parelli is total submission, not something i want fom my ponies, but thts just me.
 







juliag

  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Wanstrow somerset
Re: Parelli Natural Horsemanshit
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2010, 04:13:09 pm »
No Rosemary, of course you are right, I do know nothing about it and I agree these people are not great ambassadors of Parelli, however they are so say very experienced in it and well trained to the point that both husband, wife and daughter are all on some sort of programme in which they will end up qualified enough to teach it. Thats the problem really isnt it, it encourages  inexperienced people, with a rope and a young horse, terrifying really isnt it!
juliag

 

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