[Polyanya]

Hi everyone 

My  two GG x girls are growing up and this autumn they'll be 18 months old and ready for a billy. Not sure if I'll be able to hire the GG boy but could have access to a Saanen - would he be too big for my girls? Failing that how does the AI method work? We had our Shetland cow AI'd by a man who did that for a living only there are no goat AI people here? Is it even advisable for the first time? Any thoughts appreciated 

[Anke]

AI on goats is a lot more complicated than in cows, so you would need someone who does AI in sheep (same method). Using the traditional AI has quite a low success rate, but laprascopic is much higher - however I would be surprised if it was available on Shetland/Orkney.

Are your GG's pure? What is their weight now? I would not breed a 1st timer GG to anything other than a GG (or smaller if GG not available), later on pure Saanen or Toggenburg males are fine.

You could always bring a male GG kid from mainland UK - but it is very expensive and possibly quite stressful, would probably have to be at least two for company on such a long journey...

[Penninehillbilly]

If they are registered pure it would be a shame not to get a GG male, or, is it possible to find a breeder who you could take your girls to and leave them there? You could treat them so they both came into season about the same time, so they could go together, with you to reassure them.

[Polyanya]

Thank you Anke and Penninehilbilly - yes seems everything is stressful and complicated concerning livestock to Shetland  No my girls aren't pure GGs or registered and weigh between 20 and 25kgs. I'm not even sure what they are crossed with (the breeder is distinctly unhelpful) but they look more golden than any other breed, I'll have to try and get the breeder to agree to let me use her GG billy, even if its just for the first time.

Is there a Scottish Goatkeepers Association on line at the moment? I'd like to join.

[Talana]

I think your best bet would be to use one of your local stud males you mentioned. I don't think AI is an option for you unless any of your local vets do laprascopic AI(only vet can do &more successful than cervical AI)  or you have a local pedigree sheep breeder that gets AB Europe up to Shetland to AI or even just to deliver semen to their own tank. When I do AI (I am in Aberdeenshire) we sponge the goat s to a timetable and take them to AB europe's centre which is in Edinburgh. Large pedigree sheep breeders often club together and pay a lot of money to get them to come to the farm. I know a couple of breeders who have done a goat AI course and have their own tank for cervical AI but they have found transport of semen to them difficult and expensive and they are preferring just to take the goats to Edinburgh as cheaper and more successful I was told by a vet that with frozen semen Cervical AI 20% chance, Laprascopic 50-60% chance.
I do know that there is a pure saanen breeder in Orkney and AN /Boer breeder, the pure Saanen breeder recently swapped pure Saanen males with another breeder(Ayrshire) I think long term you may have to arrange getting your own male or loan of one. We have put pedigree sheep at Aberdeen on the boat heading for Orkney / Shetland before. It is difficult when you are in a remote location. I have pure toggenburgs which are quite rare and there is only 3 breeders at the moment with males in Scotland so we often have to arrange for new males to be transported from further a field.

[Talana]

Goat Clubs in Scotland are:
Scottish Goatkeepers federation http://www.scottishgoatkeepersfederation.com/
Grampian Goat Club https://sites.google.com/site/grampiangoatclub/news
Both SGF & Grampain do newsletters stud lists stock secretary seminars shows
Ayrshire Goat Club (does milk recording shows newsletter stud list)
Highland Goat Club

[Anke]

No my girls aren't pure GGs or registered and weigh between 20 and 25kgs.

20 to 25kgs? Are you sure?

Our smallest GG goatling (at about 14 months old) weighed 35kgs a couple of years ago, and we thought she may be too small to breed. She did put weight and size on her in the following year and did kid successfully with a single kid. However I think if your kids are (aged around 1?) 25 kgs now then they are very small... what do you know about their parentage?  Any chance they are half pygmy? If there have been no recent new billies brought to the Islands, the chance is that these girls are quite inbred, another possible explanation for their small size.

There will be no goat semen on the islands, and bringing it up will be prohibitively expensive - not worth the value of your goats I am afraid.

No idea what to suggest re suitable billy I am afraid, without seeing their size for real.

[Talana]

A friend of mine has pygmys and boers she got a surprise one year her pygmy gave birth to 2 healthy brown and white floppy eared kids the culprit her large boer buck! Another friend has ended up with pygmy x British Alpine before. I echo what Anke said 25kg does sound on the small side for their age, so could be possible pygmy / feral in ancestry. If looking well and in good condition should be able to go to the male whatever breed. Only you can see what like they are and the size of the males in your area and where you want to go with them.

[Polyanya]

Oooh er I'm not sure what their accurate weight is to be honest and they will both be just over 1 year old. Taller than  my labrador I'll try and post a pic which doesn't really give their size but I'll measure them tomorrow - just got back from work.

[Talana]

They are lovely Polyanya. they will continue to grow over the summer and will be fine to put in kid come autumn.

[Anke]

If you measure their girth just behind the front legs the circumference should be transferable into weight. I have got a chart somewhere. Even better if you have some sheep scales?

[Lesley Silvester]

Thank you Anke and Penninehilbilly - yes seems everything is stressful and complicated concerning livestock to Shetland  No my girls aren't pure GGs or registered and weigh between 20 and 25kgs. I'm not even sure what they are crossed with (the breeder is distinctly unhelpful) but they look more golden than any other breed, I'll have to try and get the breeder to agree to let me use her GG billy, even if its just for the first time.

So long as you are sure he's not their father.

[Polyanya]

Thank you Talana for the very comprehensive info (my head is spinning) and addresses and thanks for the reassurance. 

Anke would be grateful if you could rustle up the chart you mentioned - just been out and trimmed their feet and measured them - height at the withers is 67cm or 26.5 inches and both measure 77cm or 30 inches around the girth. Should I increase their hard feed now? They currently get 3/4 of a litre jug between them once a day, plus chopped veg with a couple of large handfuls of Alfa A, handful sunflower seeds and now getting beet nuts (although  not sure how much of that to give them) - they graze daily outside and have constant access to hay, willow etc.

Mad Goatwoman yes the GG billy is unrelated, thank you )

[Anke]

77cm puts them at 40kgs - which is absolutely fine for GG's. I would continue with your current regime, but slow it down a bit in autumn.

Check the covering on their back, see if you can feel the vertebrae. You don't want a rounded back. GG's put on fat very easily, but goatlings need a good diet to continue to grow. Also if you look from behind down the spine, you don't want to see that their shoulders are as wide as the hips, but often they are at this age. If yes, I would take out some of the protein from their diet.

I keep mine on full rations until August, and then they go onto mainly hay with a handful of soaked shreds and a dusting of oats until 8 weeks before kidding. They still get branches (as long as available) and carrots over winter.

But I still wouldn't mate them to anything bigger than a GG for their first time.

[Polyanya]

Much obliged to you Anke for the info and advice,  :thumbsup:good to know we are on the right track, just need to make sure I can contact the breeder for the GG billy.