[MikeMikeMike]

Hi,

so we have a 9 acre young (14 years old but slow growing) deciduous woodland and we are thinking about getting some pigs to keep in it. We have _loads_ of questions.

Firstly, one of our primary goals of keeping pigs is to help us deal with the undergrowth in the woodland. It's mainly grass, nettles, thistles and reeds. We'd like to lose the nettles, thistles and reeds, so we are hoping pigs can dig it up for us and we have a chance to replant with what we like.
Also our woodland is sloped but the soil is clay and it takes drainage from the fields above us so some of it is very boggy, some less so, we've heard that pigs can be used to create drainage channels although I've gathered that this might be more theoretical than practical!


Secondly we'd like to sell the meat once we've reared them.

Thirdly, we've never had pigs before so we don't want to take on animals that will be difficult for us to manage.

All that brings us to breeds.
We've been recommended to get Kune Kunes because they are small, friendly and easily handled but we're not sure they will be a good fit for what we want. For example I doubt they'd have the weight to create a drainage channel.
We also need to know where to get our pigs. We are in north cumbria (Roadhead) so any personal recommendations would be welcome.
We were thinking of getting two pigs initially (presumably we get 2 gilts).

Our other concerns are -
Costs -
We can roughly price up startup costs (price for pigs (£50+ each?), electric fence (£100 or so), pig ark (cheap if we make it ourselves from space wood, otherwise maybe £300))

But on going costs are harder to figure -
How much is going to costs to feed the pigs (I guess it depends not he forage and the breed)?
How much are bedding costs?
How much vets bills/medication?

Transport -
We've got a berlingo car which is essentially a van once you take the back seats out, I'm hoping we can transport the pigs home in this but obviously we can't transport them once in this once they are grown, but maybe I've underestimated this and we won't even be able to get them home in this.

What do we do to transport them for slaughter? Do we have to hire/buy a trailer?

Slaughter -
Anyone got any recommendations for a abattoir in North Cumbria?

How does the whole process work?

Are we responsible for getting then there and transporting the meat back?

Is all the butchery done there or is that something completely separate?

Either way how are the carcasses packaged up?

Presumably there are meat hygiene rules we have to follow if we want to sell the meat?

Random -
How do we tag them, we'll only have two do we really have to get all the equipment to do slap marks or ear tags or is this something you can get done when you buy them?

How much time does it take dealing with the pigs? What's the daily schedule for their care?

What if we want to go away for a few days, we leave our chickens in a run with plenty of food and water and maybe ask someone to take a look now and again, can we do the same with pigs?


Okay, so I think that's all my questions for now, I'm sure I'll have more.
Oh and if there's anyone up here near Roadhead with pigs we'd love to visit and see what we are getting into!

Thanks,

 - Mike.

[Possum]

Crikey! That's a lot of questions. Good that you are thinking so carefully before you start. I can give a couple of answers before other people come along.


Yes, you can transport weaners in a puppy crate in the back of a Berlingo. You will probably need to keep the windows open though.   You will certainly need a trailer to take them to the abbatoir.


Kune kunes may not be the best breed to start with. They need careful management if they are not to run to fat. Oxford Sandy and Blacks are friendly and eat any amount of weeds, although thistles are not their favourites. Check the breed society websites for local breeders.


Some of your questions will be answered by the Livestock section of this website so it will be worth you looking at that as well.

[Marches Farmer]

Start off by reading a good book like Richard Lutwyche's Pig Keeping (published by the National Trust).  Pigs will trash young woodland as well as the undergrowth, unless you have every tree stoutly fenced.  The best thing for drainage channels is a mini-digger - pigs have no sense of direction!  Pigs will turn a boggy area into a swamp.  If young pigs eat too much rough, stalky material they can end up with an impacted gut.

[Bionic]

Hi,

so we have a 9 acre young (14 years old but slow growing) deciduous woodland and we are thinking about getting some pigs to keep in it. We have _loads_ of questions.

Firstly, one of our primary goals of keeping pigs is to help us deal with the undergrowth in the woodland. It's mainly grass, nettles, thistles and reeds. We'd like to lose the nettles, thistles and reeds, so we are hoping pigs can dig it up for us and we have a chance to replant with what we like.
Also our woodland is sloped but the soil is clay and it takes drainage from the fields above us so some of it is very boggy, some less so, we've heard that pigs can be used to create drainage channels although I've gathered that this might be more theoretical than practical!


Secondly we'd like to sell the meat once we've reared them.

Thirdly, we've never had pigs before so we don't want to take on animals that will be difficult for us to manage.

All that brings us to breeds.
We've been recommended to get Kune Kunes because they are small, friendly and easily handled but we're not sure they will be a good fit for what we want. For example I doubt they'd have the weight to create a drainage channel.
We also need to know where to get our pigs. We are in north cumbria (Roadhead) so any personal recommendations would be welcome.
We were thinking of getting two pigs initially (presumably we get 2 gilts).

Our other concerns are -
Costs -
We can roughly price up startup costs (price for pigs (£50+ each?), electric fence (£100 or so), pig ark (cheap if we make it ourselves from space wood, otherwise maybe £300))

But on going costs are harder to figure -
How much is going to costs to feed the pigs (I guess it depends not he forage and the breed)?
How much are bedding costs?
How much vets bills/medication?

Transport -
We've got a berlingo car which is essentially a van once you take the back seats out, I'm hoping we can transport the pigs home in this but obviously we can't transport them once in this once they are grown, but maybe I've underestimated this and we won't even be able to get them home in this.

What do we do to transport them for slaughter? Do we have to hire/buy a trailer?

Slaughter -
Anyone got any recommendations for a abattoir in North Cumbria?

How does the whole process work?

Are we responsible for getting then there and transporting the meat back?

Is all the butchery done there or is that something completely separate?

Either way how are the carcasses packaged up?

Presumably there are meat hygiene rules we have to follow if we want to sell the meat?

Random -
How do we tag them, we'll only have two do we really have to get all the equipment to do slap marks or ear tags or is this something you can get done when you buy them?

How much time does it take dealing with the pigs? What's the daily schedule for their care?

What if we want to go away for a few days, we leave our chickens in a run with plenty of food and water and maybe ask someone to take a look now and again, can we do the same with pigs?


Okay, so I think that's all my questions for now, I'm sure I'll have more.
Oh and if there's anyone up here near Roadhead with pigs we'd love to visit and see what we are getting into!

Thanks,

 - Mike.

Gosh, where do I start
Agree that Kune Kune's may not be the best breed for you to start with. They take longer to get to slaughter weight. OSB's and GOS are good. We have had both. Probably best not to get to intent on a particular breed though. Look around to see whats available in your area at the time you are wanting them. Look a few weeks in advance though so that you can either 'book' your piglets from a sow that is due or from a young litter.

Most people on here would recommend taking boars so that you don't get attached and want to keep them for breeding, but others talk of boar taint. some say it exists others say it doesn't and if you get the boars away before they get to breeding age it shouldn't apply anyway. On the other hand we have only ever had gilts so can't really say.

Feeding costs will depend on how much they have to forage. Search back on some of the previous posts on here which will tell you how much hard feed they need per day. Cost of sow & weaner nuts is about £6.80 per bag.

Vets bills - you might not need to pay any vets bills if you are only going to keep them for porkers. I have been unlucky and had a couple of issues that needed to be dealt with by the vet. The price will vary from area to area and of course on what needs to be done but its cheaper to have things done to farm animals than it is with pets.

Bedding costs - apart from your ark they need a nice bed of straw. If the weather is ok and not wet like last year one lot of bedding might last them the whole season. They don't go to the toilet in their ark and are generally very clean. A tip is that the ark will seem big for 2 weaners when you get them and therefore they could toilet in a corner. Put a bale or two of straw in to take up a bit of room initially and then remove a bale as they get bigger.

Yes, you will be able to transport the weaners in your belingo but be aware, boy.... do they scream when they get picked up.
As they get bigger you will need a trailer. You can hire or buy but if you are hiring make sure you look well in advance. We have had several people on here with their pigs booked in for slaughter the following day and still no transport.

What happens with the abattoir depends somewhat on which abattoir it is so I will leave that to someone with some local knowledge

Tagging - we opted for the slap mark. Once you have bought your marking kit then there is no other outlay as the herd number stays the same. Slap marking is relatively easy to do.

Well I will leave the others to respond with some more info

[kja]

  There may well be members on here that live near by that can offer local advice.

Pigs should not be left unchecked and need feeding a daily ration & fresh water. I would never consider not feeding and checking any less than twice a day.

I would always try and get people new to pigs to take on boars for reasons that have been said.

Before we started breeding pigs we used to buy in weaners 30 - 40 a year buy after a disaster early on we brought them in three minimum …. prior to that we were bringing in twos and lost one which left his mate on his own not ideal as you then have to source one of similar age and try to mix them.

Visit your local slaughterhouse and have a chat as to costs and service available.

Again visit your feed merchant and get prices for feed.As to feeding costs it will depend on traditional or modern breeds a modern pig will reach slaughter weight sooner than most traditional breeds.


You will need a trailer for their final journey …lots of info on Defras  website

You will need a CPH and herd number.


If your going to keep repeating the process a pig slap marker is a good investment if not go down the metal tag route they hardly notice if you slap or tag whilst they are feeding.

Well done for asking all the questions prior to starting out, it always surprises me when you get the posts I have my pigs now what do I do ?.

[SophieYorkshire]

Im in Longtown and have two LW boar weaners ready to leave

[SallyintNorth]

I'm nearby and have had piggies.  Black Brow at Orton (near Wigton) is the abattoir to use, friendly and helpful, and nice handling of the animals.  If you only wanted the meat for yourself, there is also Weardale, but that's for personal use only, and is a bit further to drive.  Really, really lovely with the animals, though.

Yes you will need a trailer to take them to slaughter.

There are a number of pig breeders in the locale that come on here.  I think [member=120041]Pigsmightfry[/member] has OSBs.  If you don't find something suitable, drop me a pm and I will suggest others to try.

Colin Moore Butchers in Brampton do a grand job, and they'll collect from Black Brow as they have their own animals slaughtered there.  You'd have to talk to Colin about the resale aspect, he may well be able to do what you need.  Again, if you're struggling, drop me a pm.

There's also a good butcher in Longtown, Kirkup is it? Next to the Lunch Box.  Might be worth asking if they can butcher for you, and which abattoir they use.

I think weaners to porkers will do undergrowth clearance very well but the drainage channel idea is a bit far fetched!   If you have too many pigs on too little ground they'll start on the tree roots, but if there's plenty of easier pickings, in my experience they do a grand job.  As soon as you can walk on earth, however, get them out or the next day you'll see exposed roots!

[SallyintNorth]

Oh, and the feed I use is Carrs, but buy it from Tarff Valley in Longtown; it's cheaper!

You can't rely on electric fencing, you need stock fencing with a barbed wire strand at ground level as well - and regular maintenance

They need a good supply of clean water at all times.

Yes, £50/head ish.  Might find some a little cheaper.  Personally I would buy weaners and not have sows, you need to keep a sow in pig, which means 2 litters per year per sow, and finding the butchery and customers for 30-odd porkers a year is a business, not a bit of income from your hobby woodland-clearers.  Not to mention managing them all without them destroying the trees.

If it's really wet and boggy underfoot in winter now, you would probably find it unsuitable for pigs over winter.  So again, weaners would be a better plan - buy in spring, fatten over the summer, slaughter in the backend, rest the ground over winter.  For a small number of pigs, you'd find people happy to let you collect windfall apples - and you really can taste it in the meat!

[Pigsmightfry]

I'm down in Brampton and keep OSBs, we currently have 15 ranging from piglets to sows and a boar. You are very welcome to come and have a look around as it may give you a few ideas, I built my own pig arks and take weaners to slaughter. PM me if I can help.

[MikeMikeMike]

Wow, thanks for all the valuable advice and offers, this seems like a really helpful and active forum.
I've read the articles in the livestock section of the site and that's answered a few of my questions but we've still got a few things to think about.

We were thinking electric fencing so that we could enclose them in an area small enough for them to make an impact on then easily move them to another area but it sounds like it might not be enough? Does anyone just rely on electric fences?
The border of the woodland is fenced in places but in others the fencing is inadequate or damaged, it would be a big job to make the whole place secure. Do pigs tend to wander a lot? Our chickens are free to roam during the day and never go that far.
In the short term we could probably make sure our fencing is secure from the road as most of that fencing is good but the fencing into neighbouring fields is poor (it's not unknown for neighbouring livestock to appear in the woods).

Anyway, lots to think over. Will apply for a CPH as it looks like we can't do anything without that.

 - Mike.

[SallyintNorth]

You cannot risk your pigs getting onto other people's land.  Firstly, pigs are very destructive, and secondly, pigs are extremely susceptible to foot and mouth, so to many farmers in Cumbria and Devon they are the bogey man personified.

So you need very robust boundaries.

[waterbuffalofarmer]

But [member=10673]SallyintNorth[/member] there isn't any foot and mouth in Britain atm, unless they have access to raw meat which in itself could cause foot and mouth. The only real problem is they could either spread certain strains of bacteria/disease which they may be carrying or they could pick something up from the land they escape onto. Also pigs have a terrible habit of trashing land, so the neighbours wouldn't be too please to find holes in their pasture I agree with everyone in the fencing part so that they can't get out as pigs have a bad habit of getting out, they can be escape artists. I hope all goes well for you with everything and all the best with whatever breed you decide to keep

[SallyintNorth]

We didn't have fmd on 18th Feb 2001, either.  But we did on Feb 19th.

The point is, by the time we know we have it, it's been spread. And pigs spread it more readily than any other species.

And even if your argument was valid, [member=42855]waterbuffalofarmer[/member], you can be as right as you like, if your neighbour thinks you are a bad neighbour, however irrational his/her thinking, then you've just made your life a whole lot harder.

[harmony]

I have never heard a farmer bemoan having pigs next door because they spread FMD more quickly than other animals!


I believe FMD is easier to spot in pigs than other animals and also they don't get carted around the countryside to pockets of land here, there and everywhere like a lot of sheep do. They have always observed a 20 day standstill even before the more recent FMD outbreaks. 


At the end of the day if we have FMD again whether we are at more risk from pigs that are generally kept in small numbers and do not travel about the countryside or the masses of sheep movements that take place is an interesting debate.

[pharnorth]

It is something of a side issue to the original question(s) but pigs have a 20 day stand still not 8 which has some implications for escapees. Either way, Sally's point is well made, if you go with inadequate fencing your neighbours will be less then happy with escapees trashing their land.
Good fencing is the most significant start up outlay in keeping pigs and the day after they arrive is not the time to find out.
I keep mine behind stock fencing with an electric wire.  It will be interesting to know if others are relying on electric wire only- especially if it is battery powered- I think I might struggle to sleep at night.....