[Rosemary]

We've been using Closamectin pour on which is closantel and ivermectin. Next winter, I was planning to change to Cydectin Triclamox pour on which is triclabendazole and moxidectin. I know they are both clear wormers.

However, both products are not for use in cattle producing milk for human consumption. The problem seems to be the flukicide because Panacur has a milk withdrawal period.

So what do dairy farmers fluke their cattle with?

[verdifish]

Closentol, albendazol. !  And there is a oxy, something but at the mo the name fails me.

[fsmnutter]

Rules around flukicides in milking animals changed recently and its a complete pain!
There is one triclabendazole 24% that can be used in the dry period, as can clorsulon, or albendazole and oxyclozanide are much more free to use in milking animals.
http://www.noah.co.uk/papers/NOAH%20VMD%20Flukicides%20in%20dairy%20cows%20withdrawal%20periods.pdf is a really useful table that summarises simply.
I would discuss all this with your vet, who may well be able to suggest the best treatments for your animals in your area.
Care is advised in all choices as triclabendazole is the only flukicide that kills all stages of fluke, so is heavily used, and at high risk of resistance, so should be used strategically when it is needed and effective.
Likewise, all wormers should be used in conjunction with worm egg counts and a worming plan to avoid introducing resistance.
As such I would highly recommend avoiding combined wormer/flukicides as not usually necessary to have both at the same times.

[Anke]

Thanks for that sheet - fsmnutter.

I am not quite sure what stage of fluke the oxyclozanide deals with... checked it out here...

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/MSD_Animal_Health/Zanil_Fluke_Drench_34_mg_ml_Oral_Suspension/-61585.html

all flukes in the bile duct of the liver - is that just adult fluke?

I am just trying to work this out in case I need to treat my goats at some point, touch wood so far not been necessary...

[fsmnutter]

http://www.scops.org.uk/endoparasites-liver-fluke.html
Another useful link, advises how effective each drug is against what ages of fluke, and what time of year the different ages are causing disease.
In cases of acute fluke, with obvious disease in autumn, it will be very young fluke causing disease and so triclabendazole is required. Under cascade it would make most sense in that case to use the triclabendazole 24% which has a milk withdrawal on it so after 60 days you can use the milk again, rather than the other formulations which say never to milk again!
In spring it is more likely chronic fluke so treatment with the "green" products from the Noah list should be sufficient.
High risk places that have had fluke before should treat strategically to prevent disease, chat with the vet as its complex based on local conditions, time of year and the weather!

[Rosemary]

Aye, but with a six momth use by date, and only a few beasts, it's hard to have a lot of chemicals on the go. 

[CarolineR]

Hi Anke - yes, the flukes present in the bile ducts are mainly adult fluke. You can get some late immatures in there too (all depends how fast they manage to munch their way through the liver tissue on the way to the bile ducts - yuk) but will mainly be adults.

FSMnutter - I too am a huge fan of SCOPS! All their info is for sheep though - have a look at their counterpart for cows here www.cattleparasites.org.uk/fluke.html  They are an organization called COWS and do all things cattle parasite. Find clarification on use of all flukicides, flukicide use in dairy cattle, and all the info you could need about fluke itself.

If anyone is at the Smallholder education conference in February, or the Smallholder festival in September, feel free to buttonhole me about fluke. I will talk your ear off. And probably show you some really gross pictures. I'll be the one under a banner saying either "SRUC" or "SAC Consulting".

 I think I might do my free fluke talk for smallholders in some locations around Scotland as well, for those too far off to get to an event     It all depends if I can get enough people in a room to make it worthwhile for me to drive from Perth to Nairn, or the Borders or wherever

[Anke]

Thanks Caroline and Fsmnutter - all good and I will keep it where I can find it!

Fluke is an ever possible problem with my goats, but touch wood have so far not found that they need treating...

[Louise Gaunt]

Caroline, a bit off topic, but could you record your fluke talk and put it on YouTube then let people email you any questions? Just a thought to get info out to people in the more remote areas.

[CarolineR]

Hi Louise!
We've actually been talking about that at work for a wee while now. I'm really keen to get all of our stuff online somehow - because I know so many people are too far off the beaten track to get anywhere easily.
Plus I get really worried when people say they've driven three hours to come to a talk and then it's dark and miserable outside, it makes me concerned that they will struggle to get home again (I spent six years in general mixed practice, and have friends still in it, so I have seen first hand the accidents that do happen at night on country roads).
We've been looking into live webinars, online "clubs" where you all watch a video and then have an online chat for questions the next night or something, and various other options.
The only drawback when I have discussed it with smallholders is that obviously online learning would not be suitable for all - a lot of people have explained how dreadful their connection is, and others that they prefer in-person learning to online, especially those with dyslexia. So we'd likely have a mixture of all types of learning in the ideal world.
Really glad to hear you are enthusiastic about it though - it tells us we are thinking of going in the right direction, and I promise I'll be working on it! Anyone else can feel free to get in touch with suggestions too - I can be reached at caroline.robinson@sac.co.uk
Have a good weekend, everyone!
C