[ricardodba]

Hi,

I have a refurbished Rayburn Nouvelle. Im using it for Hot Water and Central heating and run it mainly on welsh anthracite and also 2-4 seasoned hard logs per day.
At present im using about 2x 25kg bags of anthracite every 3 days. Does this sound about right?...as im hoping i can get this usage down.

Im starting to realize the more you put on the less you use...basically if you only put a little bit on at a time it burns off much quicker than banking it up say every 4-6 hours.

Another issue im having is getting the oven thermometer up to 200...im usually hovering around the 150oc mark...I have it set to H and even opening it all up (bottom wheel and top flap and with thermostat at 6-8) doesnt seem to get the temp up high.
Im guessing if i put it to C the oven will get hotter and therefore show a higher reading on the oven thermometer?...but any tips on getting more heat out of it will be a great help...especially as its running 8 radiators and winter is now here!!

Thanks.

[SallyintNorth]

To get heat into the oven, get a good fire going then shut everything down except some bottom (spinwheel) draft, with the Heat/Cook selector set to C.  When the oven temp is a bit short of what you want, then shut everything right down.

'Right down' depends on your situation, it's whatever suits your Rayburn and fuel - the settings that keep the fire going but not roaring, ie., longest burn without much cooling.

On my new Rayburn there's a slidy thingy in the front panel, inside, visible only when you open the door of the fire box - looks like a hollow nail inside a slot.  Slid one way is for anthracite, the other for any other fuel. 

I don't know how many radiators you're running off yours?  And what heat you're setting.  If you're keeping 6 radiators warm and heating water plus cooking, then it'll use a bit of fuel.  50kg anthracite over 3 days does sound a bit high for this time of year, however.   That'd be a tonne every two months.  That's midwinter consumption, I'd say, not late mild autumn. 

Yes, they run best always on and not cooling down too much.  Riddle thoroughly every morning and before cranking the fire up in the evening.  Keep the ash tray clear.

Other recommendations are idiosyncratic; depends on the Rayburn, the situation, the fuel, the weather, and your demands. 

Do you have a central heating pump?  Do you need it on all the time?  We let our rads run on gravity-fed hot water most of the time; having the pump on does increase fuel consumption.

[ricardodba]

Thanks for the reply.

Running 8 rads...but we are wihtin the specified Bu rating for this Rayburn.

Its my 1st month of running it...so im still trying to get used to it.

I set Rayburn thermostat (the one located on the top on the back left side) to between 6-7. How does this thermostat work..Does setting it higher burn more fuel?...

I can keep the fire burning overnight...have had it going for 12 hours. I bank it right up before i go to bed and shut everything down...i.e. close spin wheel and top flap all the way in...should i also turn down the Rayburn thermostat?

I guess it doesnt help that our house is drafty...we're about to have some tripple glazing installed...so maybe i wont need the rads as hot as possible!

How does having the central heating pump switched on burn more fuel? My pump is run on a clock so comes on at certain times of the day. I do find myself turning the CH off if fire is only burning low (pointless having cool water being pumped around).

I try not to run it hot all the time. more with fire box full and everything closed down to slow down burning. Then when i need heat i open it all up, riddle and usually add a log or 2 to pick it up.

Any thing i should change??

Thanks :-)

[Womble]

You need to spend some time understanding what each of the controls does. That will help you to get the best out of it for any circumstance.


Basically, the controls are all about airflow. Higher airflow into the combustion chamber = a faster rate of burning = more heat output, and also higher fuel usage.


To summarise the controls as I understand them (our Rayburn is a 355SFW, but they're all fairly similar):

• Thermostat knob: There is a little flap of metal on an arm which covers the air inlet hole to the firebox (hard to see, but it's there). If the water in the jacket gets hotter than a certain temperature, the arm will start to move, and the flap will cover the air inlet hole, thus reducing airflow to the fire and eventually reducing / controlling the water temperature. The knob changes the temperature at which the airflow starts to be reduced.
• Central Heating Pump: Depending on your installation, you may find you get good recirculation naturally, without the pump. However, that's only likely to be to certain radiators. If you run the pump, that will increase the water flowrate to the radiators, which will then remove heat from the water faster. The returning cold water will cause the flappy thing described above to open up to try and raise the temperature again, which allows more airflow into the firebox, and burns the fuel faster.
• Spinny wheel on the front: We only open this to get the fire going initially. After that, it's always closed, or we lose control of temperature and everything gets too hot. This is different from our previous range, where we used the spinny wheel all the time to control the heat output. I think the optimum use of this control will depend a lot on the draw your chimney has, amongst other things.
• Slidey thing inside the firebox door: This allows some air up into the firebox to aid secondary combustion. As Sally says, one way for coal, the other way for wood, as per the instruction manual.
• H/C control knob on the front:  Best to look at what this does inside the stove to understand it properly. Basically "H" for heating directs more of the hot gases from the flames around the back boiler, but shuts off the route over the oven, whilst "C" for cooking directs the gases more over the oven and less over the back boiler. If you want hot rads, select H. If you want to cook things in either the oven or on the hotplates, select C.
• Flappy lid thing or spinny wheel on the flue: Opening this allows the chimney to draw air in directly from the kitchen. That increases the pressure drop in the flue, so DECREASES the air flowrate through the stove, and will make it burn less fiercely. We leave this closed all the time, but it will be installation specific.

With all these things, your mileage will vary depending on your actual installation, and how you use the stove. However, if you can get a good understanding of what each control actually does and why, you'll be well on the way to figuring it out. If you still need answers to your specific questions, come back and I'll help if I can.


Hope that helps! 

[ricardodba]

Thanks for that...great help. I had a brief understanding of the controls...the main one if didnt know was the rayburn thermostat control...thanks for the info.

the botttom spin wheel i keep closed unless i want to pick the fire up or get it running hot...at that point i will also open the top flap plate thing...which will draw more from chimney is my understanding. The other spinny flap thing (where flap plate is located)  i never open thatat all.

When on H...as i look it right now its around 175oc...and i've had bottom wheel fully open, thermostat at 7 and top flap plate 3/4 open for the last few hours and CH pump on...surely the oven thermomter should be higher...even on H???!!...radiators are not hot to touch more of a comfortable heat to touch.

I guess to get rads hot to the touch i guess i need to get the fire temp right up??

Thanks.

[SallyintNorth]

Mine is the same model as Womble's.

Damper (flap on flue operated by side to side knob) is for when you want the fire right down, or if your chimney has insane draw and you're burning fuel at a stupid rate despite shutting everything else down.  You would not normally be using the damper when you are wanting the rads hot and/or the oven hot.

Slidy thing that sits under the damper flap regulates the heat going up the chimney.  Open for more draw to help the fuel burn, close to contain the heat and retain it in the device.

There's something in the manual about not using the damper if you're burning all wood, or else it's not if you're burning coal, I can't remember which, sorry.  Do you have a manual for yours?

The thermostat, as Womble explained in more technical jargon, brings air into the back of the fire.  Broadly, the setting here is about how hot you want the water in the tank and around the rads.  Higher = hotter and burn more fuel.  Lower for overnight.  If your flue is clear and your draw good, you may find that 1 or 2 is fine for overnight, 2 or 3 if you want a bit of heat in the rads for morning. 

Daytime I have ours on 4 or 5 if the weather's mild, up to 6 or 7 when really cold.  Haven't needed 8 - yet 

I need a higher setting and to renew the fuel more often if I have the pump on.  Our pump only pumps when the water is at or above  certain temperature; this was recommended by our installer.

According to the manual, the spinwheel at the front is for controlling the oven temperature.  When starting the fire and when heating it up ready for heating the oven, have it three turns open.  Once the fire is good and hot, close it down a little, but not a lot - so keep it maybe 2 turns open, close the slidy right down to stop the heat escaping up the chimney.  H/C selector to C for Cook.  All the heat goes into the oven and it heats up.  In theory.

When the oven is nearly at the temp you want, close the spinwheel right down and use the thermostat if you need more air in the fire.

Sometimes, counter-intuitively, the oven temperature rises most the more everything is closed down, and with the H/C selector on H or partway between.  (There's more air flow through the fire on C, less on H, as well as the routing being different.)

BH is good at making a hot fire that heats the oven.  He doesn't fill the fire box and then try to get it all burning, he keeps adding a couple of logs and getting them burning well, then another couple.  He likes to have the spinwheel right open and the slidy at about half open.  Once he has the oven temperature starting to rise, and the fire is good and red-to-white right through, I take over, shut the slidy, reduce the spinwheel, select Cook.

I don't generally ask the oven to get up into the >200C zone.  It's not worth the fuel, I use the electric oven if I need the very very high temperatures.  The Rayburn oven heat is a deep all-encompassing heat and will cook more than you think from the temperature shown.  If you want more heat, use the solid tray to reduce the oven volume and/or the supplied full-width-and-depth roasting tray as high up as it can go - the temperature at the top of the oven when the roasting tray is high up and the solid tray below it is much higher than the dial shows.

Having said that, anthracite does burn hotter than wood or our 'duck egg' coal cobs, so you maybe can get the higher oven temperatures.

You may well need to turn your central heating pump off to get the oven up to the highest temperatures, I would think.  I don't find I need to reduce the thermostat, but you may find different.

Overnight if we have a good breeze and the flue and internals are all clear, I can close everything right down.  Thermostat on 1, spinwheel closed or a quarter turn open, slidy fully shut or only 1/2" open. 

If the chimney hasn't been swept recently and the internals haven't been cleaned in a few weeks, I probably need the thermostat on 2, spinwheel half or even a whole turn, slidy open about an inch. 

You shouldn't get too much build-up of soot and so on as you are burning anthracite, but we get a lot build up here.  I need to clean the internals once a month.  More often would probably be better.  (The manual says once a week  )

You will need to experiment; every Rayburn is different, and they can behave very differently when the wind changes or drops too. 

At first I'd think about it logically and make changes that were thought through; now it's more intuition and experience of our Rayburn and our weather.  I 'just know' what settings to use.  Usually 

[devonlady]

You have to get to know your stove and that takes time! If you need a "quick" oven or hot water in a hurry burn hazel.
I had a Rayburn whose temperature gauge was broken and to know the oven's heat I had to spit on the hotplate. The faster the sizzle the hotter the oven!!
I am, for the first time in all my life, stoveless and have gas central heating. It costs us fe#k all though as we are in the same situation as you.......we don't know how to work it!!

[ricardodba]

thanks for your replies guys.

I guess my main goal right now is to get the radiators hotter. Which i understand will use more fuel.
Wondering if i should go with a different fuel to anthracite that will burn hotter...i did use some supertherm ovoids and noticed these got temp higher than anthracite and quicker...maybe i need to mix anthracite and superthem/other ovoids.

As said im hoping i wont need the rads to be as hot when triple glazing has been installed 

How long do you keep your fires running, without letting it go out?...im of the mind set to keep it going and going...i had it running for 2 weeks last time before letting it go out and cleaning it...when i say clean it i mean brushing down and cleaning grill bars etc. Should i be doing anything else when cleaning?

just about to order another 1/2 ton of anthracite...so will see how i get on.
Last 1/2 ton was purchased 29th September and will probably run out in the next 4 days or so.
So lets see how long the next 1/2 ton lasts for!

Thanks.

[SallyintNorth]

Riddle thoroughly (using the up-and-down knob next to the lower/ash door) twice daily.  Don't let the ash get higher than the bottom of the grille at the back of the fire or it interferes with the air flow up there.

Have a jolly good burn for at least an hour at least once a day, everything opened up - not fully, but so the fire gets good and red-to-white and the chimney gets good and hot.

Empty the ash can at least once a day, never let it be so full it interferes with air flow under the fire.

Use a T-bar thingy to pull any ash out from the rear of the ash pit every two or three days.

For long slow burn overnight:
. first get fire good and hot, then fill with fuel (only fill to level with the opening)
. thermostat 1 or 2 (or higher if you need more heat in rads)
. pump off if you can
. slidy closed right down or just 1/2" or so (experiment to find what you can get away with)
. H/C on midway or more towards H (manual says C but I find H works best for us)
. spinwheel closed or just 1/4 or 1/2 turn open (experiment to find what you can get away with)

For slow burn during the day:
. thermostat whatever you need for heat, probably 5 or 6 at the moment
. slidy perhaps 1.5" or 2" (experiment to find what you can get away with)
. H/C on H
. spinwheel closed

Personally I would have the pump off most of the time, put it on when you need a boost of heat around all the rads.  But I don't know your setup, of course.

On fuel, I and my Rayburn-owning neighbour both find that anthracite is the hottest fire you can make.  But it does take some getting hot, you need the fire open for quite a while to get the big red-to-white burn.  Once you have that, though, shut it all down to the minimum you can get away with and it should burn good and hot for hours and hours.  And never go out. 

Ovoids are easier to get hot and do keep the fire in for hours, but they will burn right out in a much much shorter time than anthracite will.  And our experience is you can't get the real ferocious heat with them you do with anthracite.

Next post is about cleaning

[SallyintNorth]

You shouldn't really need to clean, not even brush, the grill bars if you've been riddling thoroughly and the fuel has been burning correctly.  So if you do need to clean them, it may suggest there is a problem somewhere.

Cleaning is:

. take off damper flap and brush off soot on inner face.
. pull slidy right out, clear soot and gunk from around its runners and also from up the flue as far as you can reach
. take cover off water heat pipes (at rear behind left hotplate on mine) - remove cover, padding, inner cover to reveal pipes
. remove grille at back of fire, where the air goes up to arrive in the chamber you've just opened
. clean inside of inner cover, use long bristle/wire brush to clear soot and gunk off pipes
. use long wire handled brush to clear soot from where the covers were to the top of the fire box and to the main chamber above the oven - you will feel the H/C flap between the hole and the main chamber, you need that to be clean too, so flip the H/C knob to H to open it
. check all the gunk and soot has fallen right through into the ash can, so the chimney is clear behind where the metal grille sits
. remove inner circle from hotplate and clean soot off inner surface
. raise hotplate using left side as hinge, hand in the hole you just made by removing the inner circle
. clear soot and gunk from fins under hotplate, and under surface of whole plate
. now clear the soot out from the upper chamber that runs across the top of the oven up to the bottom of the flue, and everywhere in there.  Scrape it through the gap into the fire box, which is open when H/C is on C and closed when H/C s on H.  That flap needs to be clean both sides also.

Basically, any soot you can find a way to reach, remove.

To check how much it needs cleaning, check the removable circle of the hotplate and the base of the flue (where the slidy thing shuts.)  If they are clear, then you probably don't need to give it the whole 9 yards.

If H/C isn't moving freely then you do need to clear the air routes and those flaps. 

If you're not getting the water temperature you think you should, it may be that the pipes are sooted up and need to be cleaned.

Now I know you haven't been doing this, I think it very likely that you will be getting all parts very much hotter very soon

When it's all clean, you can use much lower settings / smaller gaps / fewer turns to achieve the fire that you want.  Gradually you'll find you're needing more turns, more draft, more thermostat, and that may indicate it needs cleaning again.

[SallyintNorth]

Also of course the chimney needs to be clear.

Do you have the removable fire bricks removed or in place?  There are some that are fixed and some that you can remove for summer / winter.  There's one that sits next to the oven, if this is in place it's harder to get the oven hot.  But for winter, they recommend this in to help the fire concentrate the heat to the water pipes.  There's another at the back, I think they recommend this out for winter so most of the heat goes onto the pipes.  (Check your manual)

Also, there are (at least, on mine there are) two different metal grilles that fit at the back of the fire, where the air goes up the rear to heat the water pipes.  One has a box in the middle; that one is for burning wood only.  The other is flat, with holes in, and is for burning coal.  It's really important this grille is correctly seated, or the air flow up the back there is affected.  (And I just realised I forgot to mention this in 'cleaning' so will modify that post.)

Have you looked for the control inside the fire box front and set that to the anthracite setting? 

[ricardodba]

Also of course the chimney needs to be clear.

Do you have the removable fire bricks removed or in place?  There are some that are fixed and some that you can remove for summer / winter.  There's one that sits next to the oven, if this is in place it's harder to get the oven hot.  But for winter, they recommend this in to help the fire concentrate the heat to the water pipes.  There's another at the back, I think they recommend this out for winter so most of the heat goes onto the pipes.  (Check your manual)

Also, there are (at least, on mine there are) two different metal grilles that fit at the back of the fire, where the air goes up the rear to heat the water pipes.  One has a box in the middle; that one is for burning wood only.  The other is flat, with holes in, and is for burning coal.  It's really important this grille is correctly seated, or the air flow up the back there is affected.  (And I just realised I forgot to mention this in 'cleaning' so will modify that post.)

Have you looked for the control inside the fire box front and set that to the anthracite setting?

Thanks so much you replies have been a great help :-)

i have removable fire brick installed on right handside (against the oven as per winter setup)...not using other fire brick on back wall...will do in summer.

We do have a gas oven too for any quicker cooking...but once i get more of a understanding of my setup i'll start using rayburn oven more (or should i say the better half will) 

Im trying tonight with the H/C at half way and see how things go...refuelleded fire at 4pm with anthracite not quite to opener level but well stocked and 1 log...i find the logs are good for picking the fire up quicker... and I opened it all up...nice and red by 5pm...then shut flapper down to about 1" and spin wheel to 2 turns open. Then " 6pm added another log and closed all down...No pump on and Rads upstairs are all nice and warm to the touch...all cold down stairs but this is a gravity thing i guess plus all my pipe work comes down i.e. down stairs there are no underfloor pipes due to old style solid floor.

So just put pump on to get downstairs rads warm but  now upstairs rads have cooled down. Maybe need to do a bit of balancing!
Rayburn oven thermometer is just over the 200oc mark.

Thanks again 

[SallyintNorth]

That sounds like great progress, well done 

[uksfdawn]

It took me about 6 months to get to grips with our Rayburn, mine is multifuel and runs radiators on a gravity feed system, I leave it on C all the time as the water gets far to hot on H, I riddle it in the morning empty the ash during the day its burning logs and as I am outside most of the day I keep the dampers closed so its just simmering along, I open it all up and bank up late afternon to get it hot for cooking the evening meal, at night its banked up with a couple of shovels of anthracite all damped down and usually stays in all night, it sounds like you are burning a lot of anthracite.

[juliem]

I was generally regarded as the keeeper of the fire..but my ex managed to set the chimney on fire once by leaving the ash pan open and the heat burnt a hole in the flue.After that I could never control the fire and burning phurnicite found that the radiators were hottest in the  middle of the night after we had gone to bed.Seemed like a waste of fuel having to keep the fire in all the time.
Reading your experiences reminds me of the sheer hard work involved in  being the keeper of the fire.Solid fuel is so dirty as well...always having to replace the rope...empty the ash.....(usually creating a path)
I have now gone down the oil route but with a wood-burner and solar panels to heat the water...so much cleaner and cheaper.