[waterbuffalofarmer]

I have a question for you all, can you all tell me your reasons for keeping rare breeds, such as these on this list? http://www.rbst.org.uk/Marketplace/Livestock
Sorry for the question, its just I am really inquisitive. I have never kept really rare breeds but am really considering it for the future. Could anyone tell me what their, rare, breeds of sheep are like to keep, just to give me an idea? I know i could read up about it online, but I would like to ask people who have had absolute hands on experience.
Thanks

[Fleecewife]

OK some of my reasons.
 I keep the Ancient Type of Hebrideans, which are very rare, although the 2 horned modern type are now not rare but are under the general umbrella of the RBST. The Ancient Type form a tiny proportion of the national Heb flock.
Our initial reason for keeping Hebs was that someone dumped them on us  .  We had Jacobs and wanted to concentrate on them.  We put the Hebs to the tup, but it was the Jacobs which needed cosseting and assistance for their lambing.  The Hebs were pretty much ignored and lambed in their field without any help at all.  This brought us up short, and made us notice their other good points.  The usual good mothering, good birthing, good feet, milky, long-lived, hardy, good teeth, independent and self-sufficient, able to defend their lambs from predators to a large extent, and of course stunning to look at. Oh and surplus stock which goes to the butcher is amazing for taste.
The only other rare breeds we have kept, Shetland and Soay, are also Primitives, with many of the same characteristics.  We have never kept non-Primitives of rare breeds so I have no opinion there.

We do keep our Hebs for the conservation of the breed, and in particular the conservation of the Ancient Type of Heb, which appears to have much wider genetic diversity.
The reason this diversity is important is because both our climate and our animal husbandry techniques are necessarily changing with time. Breeds which were new and developed to suit the husbandry techniques and tastes of 30 years ago may now be becoming less useful. Currently, many sheep require high inputs of medicines and care. However, considered cross breeding with a now rare breed which carries desirable traits, such as lower shepherding input, fewer feed supplements, shearing and so on, will help to develop new sheep more suited to current needs.
Rare breeds do need to be kept pure to preserve this genetic diversity, but they also should be used to develop new modern breeds which will be better adapted to climate and inputs.  We tend to think that these breeds should be preserved for 'the future', but part of the future is now.

[Rosemary]

I think FW sums it up beautifully. Ryelands were on the RBST watchlist when we started with them but have had a pretty spectacular increase in ewe numbers abd breeders. I guess they are on the cusp of rare and could easily become "commercial" again, especially the white Ryeland.

I've only kept Ryelands so have no comparison with other breeds, rare or otherwise, but they are smallish, docile, have good fleece, glorious lamb, finish at about 6 / 7 months, are good mums (never had one walk away from her lamb), pretty easy lambing although not as easy as the primitives, good feet.

Our cattle breed of choice is much rarer than our sheep breed and we keep it a) because it does what we want it to do and b) it's part of our social history and it woudl be awful to lose it.

I think you have to work a lot harder to secure a positive margin with rare breeds - the comercial market doesn't like them because they aren't standard but there's a niche market - but you have to work on that.

[Marches Farmer]

I agree with FW's view.  We chose Southdowns originally because we wanted to help conserve a rare breed and because the children were young and a docile, polled breed was right for us.  We've worked very hard at improving flock health and prolificacy over the years and it's now probably as good as it can be, provided we don't ever take our eye off the ball!   They also produce superb meat, are good mothers, rarely need help at lambing (an occasional one leg back) and finish off grass.   We occasionally sell rams to farmers who've tried the currently popular Continental breeds, like Texel and Beltex (too may lambing problems) and Charollais (lambs too thin skinned) and want to go back to a traditional native terminal sire breed.

We also keep Badger Face (Torrddu) which are a traditional breed and, although very different, couldn't imagine life without a few of them around.  We tried 20 Lleynsfor a couple of years, but never again.

[waterbuffalofarmer]

Thanks for the info guys. I currently keep a flock of pure pedigree Lleyn sheep with promising genetics. I have always been fascinated with rare breeds as well as my own Lleyns. I really like the rare breeds and would love to keeep a rare breed for meat one day. I was just wanting to research and where better but here  thanks for all the feedback guys I really appreciate it.

[Castle Farm]

I keep a flock of Lleyns  Your heading in the right direction with those and can play around with genetics and improve the flock.
To see a flock of well matched sheep whatever breed is pleasing on the eye.

[Marches Farmer]

To see a flock of well matched sheep whatever breed is pleasing on the eye.

We once entered the Southdown flock competition to get an unbiased view of our flock.  The only criticism was that they didn't all match!  We had explained that we have three distinct strains, which we call A, B and C.  Each is pedigree Southdown with records going back many generations (and no French or NZ blood) but one has a tendency to have twin ewe lambs every year, another has a very long breeding life, etc.  I consider these strengths, not weaknesse,s as it offers choice, depending on what you want from your flock at a certain time.  The judge did not agree!

[waterbuffalofarmer]

Some judges are stuck in the box when it comes to breeding animals, not all though, I know of some judges who are excellent.

[Fleecewife]

To me, the whole point of maintaining a rare breed is the genetic diversity displayed. 

This raises the question of to show or not to show.  You need to put your animals in the public eye, and the show ring is the ideal place for max exposure.  However, the showring is also responsible for such a loss of diversity, and breeding for show can destroy the very characteristics which make the animals what they should be - Crufts syndrome. 

You only have to look at Hebs, which are the archetypal 'moulded by judging' example.  Back in the '70s, Hebs were rare, 60% multihorned, lots of topknots, springy chocolate brown double coat,  hardy and needing little shepherding.  Since then, the pressure of the show ring, with a very limited number of judges, the same ones mostly since the beginning, and the increasing numbers of Hebs moved south to lusher pasture, has caused a massive change in type. Hebs are now predominantly 2 horned, only 6-8% multihorned, topknotted or polled, with glossy black fleeces, and a reduction in the springiness of the fleece, caused by breeding for the 'smarter' look of a long black top coat.   

 It's one of the accepted maxims in Scotland not to source stock from the deep south, as they will at least not thrive on the hill, or at worst they'll die.  Sheep when shown are often fed concentrates for weeks beforehand, which over generations loses their ability to survive on grass and hay, so the condition will drop off rapidly when they come up here.
I think it shows the enormous resilience of the breed that they have been able to adapt so readily to both systems, although an individual struggles to swap from one to the other.

[devonlady]

I wish I'd looked more closely at the Hebs for sale last week, but just thought "Hebs and my fences?!!"

[Fleecewife]

I've never had a Heb jump a fence in 20 years, although an over-enthusiastic tup hogg did once squeeze through a small hole to get to some ewes. 
When we first got our Heb ewes, the Jacob ewes jumped into their field, sussed them out, then jump back again.
I think various breeds have bad reputations which are not justified.  As has been discussed often on TAS, the way you handle your sheep will govern how amenable they are.

[fiestyredhead331]

we keep a few Boreray sheep and a few Shetlands, reason being I wanted a small flock but also everyone here has NCC's and I didn't want there to be any confusion! The rare breed meat is amazing I have to say and I have them bucket trained now 
I really wanted our meat to be quite exclusive to us and I know of only one other Boreray keeper in our area but he kills for the table.

[Coximus]

Its interesting how the RBSTs ai of preserving the genetics of rare breeds for the future is coming to fruitition ; I've met people running Hebrideans comercially, with one chap keeping 50+ to go to the BFL to make his own smaller mules (smaller ewe = less food) which sells well, and I personally find the Heb performs £ for £ the same as a comercial x type but simply requires 1/3 less grass and no supliments - 30 years ago no one would of dreamed of trying that.;

The same goes for other breeds ; I know from handling and seeing, that the Ryeland x comercial lamb is a good lamb and does well off just grass, but its woolyness is a drawback but again, that may change in time.

[Marches Farmer]

We put our Badger Face to a Southdown tup to produce a commercial-type cross every other year.  The lambs have a slightly mottled face but are otherwise white, clean faced and clean-legged and look like any other mule store lamb in the market, and attract similar prices. They also have a very good carcase and are delicious.

[ewesaidit]

Like the look of Hill Radnors - does anyone have any?  what are they like to keep?