[bplegs]

Hallo everyone 


Got a question on fencing (Oh the glamour!!)


When we bought our small farm 2 years ago, we only bought three of the four field, the fourthj one being bought by a neighbour. Hubbie and I notice that the fence between our field and the fourth field is single fenced, whereas all the other fields, including our own and other peoples fields are double fenced.
The question we have, is can we ask the neighbour to add a double fence as what was an internal field is now not?


Thanks
Emma

[Big Light]

Unless there is a better reason than having it all the same then I can think of no reason why your neighbour would wish to lose land and spend money to double fence and i suspect you may get a far blunter response than this if you asked him/her.

Most places are not double fenced between neighbours - with the exception of MV accredited sheep.

If you wish to add a double fence for your own biosecurity then unless your neigbour has MV sheep or there is some other good reason i suspect the cost and land loss would be on you. Generally boundary fences have a dual responsibility for maintenance cost replacement  but usually  the erection of a new one to double fence doesn't come within that

Sorry to be blunt but your initial post seems not to give any reason of why this loss of land would be necessary

[stufe35]

What country are you in ?

What do you mean by what was an internal field is now not ?

Why do you consider it is them that needs to add a fence and not you ?

Is the existing fence concerned yours or theirs ?

If you are in England, irrespective of who owns the boundary feature there is an overriding vicarious liability; owners of stock are responsible for fencing to contain them.

There isn't really such thing as fencing etiquette , just law....but it depends what country you are in.

[Fleecewife]

Another aspect to consider, if you do erect a doubled fence, is to get it recorded in your deeds.  Whilst you live there you'll know which was the original march line, but unless it's in your deeds it will provide ample opportunities for fighting literally over the fence.

We should practice what we preach - we have double fenced the whole of our boundaries with a fence and a hedge sandwiched between the two.  From our point of view it's the outer fence which belongs to our neighbours, and we all recognise that, but once the fences have rotted then the march line will be the hedge, and the owners of our land in the future will have lost a small part of their acreage, and the neighbours will have gained some.  It's time we did something to establish the legalities.

From your neighbour's point of view, they bought and paid for their field, and you bought and paid for yours, so any further fence or hedgerow comes out of your land, if you're the one proposing it. 

Double fencing, especially with a hedgerow in between, is great for biosecurity, but officially it needs the two fences to be three metres apart - quite an area to lose to grazing or cultivation.

[Scotsdumpy]

Hi Emma, I guess the answer would be dependant on if you are keeping animals and they keep escaping into your neighbours field. If your animals do get into another field I think the onus is on you to keep your animal out. There are a lot of double fencedfields up here in aAberdeenshire as there was some farm payment (no doubt this will be clarifyed by someone more in the know than me) for planting hedgerows - which resulted in fencing the hedge in between 2 rows of fence. Also, if there is a stone dyke then each neighbour fenced his own side. I hope this is helpful!!

[Marches Farmer]

Hereabouts the actual fence belongs to the land on the side the fencewire is nailed.

[bplegs]

Hallo everyone,


Thanks for the replies. We are in England.


The fence that is currently there is on our boundary. On the other side there are small trees, so a second fence wouldn't cost any loss of usable field space as such.
Both they and we keep livestock (sheep mainly) and the fence that is there is a single wood and livestock wire fence.


We were just wondering where it should be double fenced as all the boundary fences seem to be doubled fenced.


As it doesn't seem clear will have a chat to the neighbour and see what he thinks. Thanks again.

[stufe35]

To understand your situation, you really need to check who owns the current boundary fence. As the land was only split from single ownership 2 years ago, one would expect there to be a clear indication in that conveyance of who owns the boundary features on each side of each field. It should be in the deeds/ conveyancing information when you bought your property if the solicitors did their jobs properly.

Failing that there can be physical clues..as mentioned above normally the wire will be on the side of the person that owns the fence.

If it's your fence, your neighbour is having a free ride on you...and of course vice versa. When it comes up due for renewal or repairs you should suggest going halves....that would be good etiquette ! (And common sense saving the need for 2 fences where you find one style of fence is suitable for both owners(because you both keep similar livestock))

[stufe35]

Generally boundary fences have a dual responsibility for maintenance cost replacement  but usually  the erection of a new one to double fence doesn't come within that

I don't really understand or believe the above quote to be true.  The following is my understanding of the practical application of the law in England...not in Scotland .

There is no legal responsibility to fence the boundary between land in 2 different owner ships.

If a landowner chooses to keep livestock on their land, it is their responsibility to fence it adequately to contain the live stock.

(You may of course get together with your neighbour and share a fence) 

[Big Light]

Im in Scotland and as the poster hadn't specified a location i put forward my thoughts as with all land issues it depends on the title deeds as to who is liable for repairs/ replacement but quite often its a dual responsibility although a livestock owner has a responsibility to keep their stock secure not all fields are indeed used for animal grazing

[stufe35]

Big light....yes the laws in Scotland are different, (and I don't have knowledge of them ! ) the principles you mention don't apply in England...where we now know the op to live.

Cheers. Stu

[Big Light]

No problems I guess the good thing about AS is the wide diversity of folks on it ; 0)

[cloddopper]

  I had a slight drama with a neighbour where we had shared responsibility of fences in the title deeds .. when it was in obvious need of repair I approached them about us doing it ourselves to save money .
" Oh I'm not going to do that" , said the neighbour.  " I can't afford it and I'm not going to get blisters on my hands " .

"  Fine , no problems " I said . I'll just have to tether the goats along the fence line then , till they get it all grazed down.

 I borrowed six of the stinkiest meat billy's you can imagine and had them staked along the fence line reasonably close to the other peoples home which was down wind of the prevalent south westerlies .. 


The billy's were duly pegged along the top end of paddock and moved every three days . Ye gods , the stench of them was abominable as each of them got their hormones going to out perform each other in the mating game stakes .

 One warm sunny afternoon after staking the goats out the guy came home early from work and called me over .. " Errr Dave , I've been thinking about the fence , yes we do need to keep it in good order .

You do the work & I'll pay for half the materials " .   "Wait a minute " I said &  popped inside for the materials quote & delivery charges plus the digger hire quote  , asked for & got half of it all there & then in tenners.

I was buggered if I was going to lay the cash out and then find they wouldn't cough up.

This little retirement bungalow property we now live in has the same sort of neighbours on both sides. When we arrived all the fences needed renewing at the rear part of the property.
Both sets of neighbours made a lot of noise ....pointing out that they owned the front brick or block built walls & rear part of the side fences,  so I could not do anything to them.
So I took lots & lots of photos ,  used a 30 mtr tape measure where it is easy to read the measurement of loads of reference points up & down the property .

I got a good friend to start digging holes in the concrete pathway 12 inches in on on my side of the property line using a medium concrete breaker , they  show him working a foot inside the old boundary fences at the back and loads more as the work to install " H "section reinforced 3 mtr long concrete posts progressed . As well as plenty more pictures showing two guys sliding in the new hit & miss fence panels on my new boundary line.

 The cheeky beggar who came to live with obnoxious creature to my right decided to start painting the fence panels that faced their house . He was gutted when I showed him pictures of where the old fence used to be  and pointed out the old stubs of fence posts still in the ground . I also informed him that the new fence is wholly mine and does not need painting for at least 30 years nor will I allow them to tie or nail etc any plants or fixtures on my fence .

 Well he had to do something with this light orange paint so he decided to paint the other neighbors fence that adjoins and was very quickly told to stop as the bloody paint was running through the panels and making a mess of the other side. Not only that , he was also told in no uncertain terms that  the fence was not theirs to paint .
 He ended up having to pay for & repaint the whole fence both sides in a nice olive green brownish colour.
 
 Such are the joys of living in a small Welsh hamlet .

 The  numpty has now taken to using a low end pressure washer to clean the front brick walling on their side of it every other week or so  ........ Me ?  I don't bother as they have declared that it is their wall . Last weekend he finally managed to blow the mortar out of several of the perpendicular  pointing , so he now blows water right through the wall. 

  I guess it won't be long before he causes the whole wall to collapse & come to me to help pay for a new one ....where upon I'll offer in writing half the material cost for a simple 3 foot high 3x3  oak post and single strand of plain wire solution .. 

 Plus I'll also get my own quotes for the materials , as I have a couple of trade accounts available where things are very very cheap .
 
 
 
 

[Garmoran]

Failing that there can be physical clues..as mentioned above normally the wire will be on the side of the person that owns the fence.

Oops! I usually put up fences with the wire on the "out"side.

[stufe35]

Doesn't matter. The key word in the sentence is 'normally'.

It's normal because it is a stronger arrangement.. When animals push against the wire they are pushing against the posts.  With the wire on the out side the animals can rub against the posts loosening them and if they push against the wire you are now just relying on the strength of the nails holding the wire to the posts.

It's not law, and it cannot be taken as proof of ownership of boundary feature.  It's just an indicator as its 'normal' for the practical reasons mentioned above.