[SallyintNorth]

I'll be honest, I started using the buckets because our legendary tight frugal neighbour also does. I figure that if he's shelling out £20 a pop for the buckets while his gates are all held up with bailer twine, there must be something in our local conditions that means I should be doing it too! 

It's not a bad tactic - and you may be surprised to see how much of farming, even for experienced farmers, is noticing what your neighbour is doing and thinking about whether you should do it yourself! 

All pregnant ewes need lots of sugar in the last 6 weeks, and the high energy licky buckets provide it.  So does treacle

Also, there may be local mineral deficiencies that the licky buckets can address when the sheep aren't getting cake.

[farmvet]

There are several different types of bucket as well as different feed blocks & nuts. Some are just a mineral lick with salt or molasses to increase the palatability and intake. These are primarily to "top up" mineral deficiencies & can help but are quite hit & miss regarding individual intakes so cant be solely relied on if you are in a deficient area.
Others are basically high energy plus some minerals eg crystalix (red buckets) sweet corn etc. These are especially useful close to lambing in eg triplets which need a lot of readily available glucose to maintain blood levels in ghe last few weeks.
The third type of bucket has a good level of protein vitamins & minerals, fats and ogliosaccarides. These are designed to promote good quality colostrum, easy lambing with feisty lambs & good milking. eg rumeno prelamber. These are best fed 4-6weeks prelambing. As a sole feed to singles on good grazing or eg hill sheep on rough grazing, or as a supplementary ffed to twins & triplets. Late lambers with good grass could use these as a sole feed too.
Forage utilizer buckets are yeast type product eg biocell which help improve the efficiency of digestion.

What to feed in the last 6 weeks really does depend on the grass available. Logically you time lambing to coincide with spring grass & feed very little. Otherwise feed companies are always happy to advise. Or choose 1 neighbour whose sheep you'd admire and ask their advice...then follow it

[Jamie12]

We still have a fair amount of grass, and have 30 sheep to a 20 acre field. I was told by an experienced shepherd to give just under half a lb a day per head and not to bother splitting as it will only caus stress seeing as i only have a few. Obviously my twins need feed, but I'm concerned my singles will become too large also. The plan next weekend is to separate the twins into a smaller paddock across the road and the singles across to the large field (with poorer grass than where they are currently) which has the poly tunnel in, the five empty girls will go into another paddock. I haven't been able to move sooner as some fences arent great and the horse owner keeps putting the horses where he pleases 

[Tim W]

Snake oil sold by charlatans and con men!

All these products have their place but the sales boys love to make you think that you NEED them when in fact sheep only rarely do

Why do people lamb so early? Why not wait and time lambing for when the grass is growing? Then you won't need to feed anything to ewes but grass/hay

I (and many others) have lambed 600 to 1000 ewes and hogs outside in April and never fed anything but grass---for 25 years +

Mineral buckets are supplied at peak stress times to animals at risk---this means where there are known mineral problems for small weaned lambs /weaned hogs that have just raised a lamb etc

[trish.farm]

Some people have to lamb early for movement reasons.  My ewes have to lamb in feb/early march as they winter graze and lamb on HLS ground and have to move off it 31 march.  This ground is right next to my house and has my lambing shelter in it.  Lambing in Feb means the majority are ready to slaughter in Sept which is perfect timing for the last of the summer grass. Tup goes in in Sept and I can get on with farm and shoot work without worrying about lambs going to slaughter.   Fits in really well with my grazing management. 

[Womble]

You know, I think Jamie and I are just a bit stressed out with the whole thing, having been on the lambing course last week.

Knowledge beforehand:

• Sheep mustn't be too thin when they lamb, or they won't have enough milk.
• Sheep should be given hay, and if they eat it, that's fine.
• Most of the time the lambs will just pop out and the ewe will instinctively know what to do. Assistance is only needed one time in ten.

Knowledge afterwards:

• Sheep mustn't be too thin when they lamb, or they won't have enough milk.
• Sheep mustn't eat too much grass or hay in late pregnancy, or the extra pressure will make their their vaginas pop out of their back ends and you'll then have to cull the ewe.
• Sheep mustn't be fed too much, or the ewe will be too fat and the lamb too large. It will then get stuck in the birth canal and die.
• Sheep mustn't be losing weight at lambing time, or they'll have a toxic reaction to their livers breaking down the fat, and they'll die.
• Sheep pregnant with twins must be fed differently to those with singles, even though you haven't scanned and hence have only a hunch that they're actually pregnant at all.
• Births never happen naturally when you're not looking. They always happen at 3am in a howling gale and driving rain. You must then catch the panicked ewe so you can ferret around inside her in a gross game of uterine lucky dip to extract the lambs, which will probably be dead. If they're not dead, their mother will reject them. The ewe will then get an infection caused by your poor hygeine, and will die.

A little knowledge, without having the experience to go with it, can be a dangerous thing people! 

[Thyme]

Seems to me there are all sorts of good reasons for lambing early, but "because that's what the big farmer next to me does" might not be one of them

[Foobar]

Tim is right, but I don't think it works for slow growing breeds.  I couldn't lamb my BWM in late April/May and then manage to get them away before the grass stops growing in November.  I would need more grazing elsewhere over winter.


I use Rumenco Lifeline bucket 8 weeks pre lambing, with a teeny bit of concentrates just to get them friendly again and so I can see them up close every morning (250g if that). Plus ad lib hay all winter.  Concentrates continue post lambing until the grass is up, plus a bucket maybe - trying MVF Super Energy + Fish Oils this year.  (My grass has more mineral deficiencies than you can shake a stick at.)

[Buffy the eggs layer]

I use a high energy bucket in place of concentrates. Bearing in mind all the variables including the fact that I keep a different breed, have different grazing, have prolific sheep, lamb early (ish) have ewes with differing condition scores and carrying different numbers of lambs this is not a recommendation Womble. It's just what works for me.


I feed good quality meadow hay from Autumn dependent on the weather along with rumivite protein and energy wheels which helps my flock get the best from their hay. If I want to avoid flushing overweight ewes or over feeding resting rams, pubescent shearlings etc I use a high energy bucket to make sure my sheep get what they need in addition to grazing or hay.


The rams get a 4 in 1 Ram bucket in the 6 weeks prior to tupping and the pregnant ewes get a Life line twin lamb bucket 6 weeks before lambing and for about 4 to 6 weeks after lambing dependent on the availability of spring grass.


[size=78%]I have a fine sandy soil so just incase the nutrients leach from the grass or the nutritional value of the hay varies, the high energy bucket enables them to make up any energy deficit. I add water to my lick buckets and towards the end of their pregnancy when their rumens are too squashed to take in much in the way of concentrates the ewes drink the licks and take on much needed calcium minerals and easily accessible energy.[/size]


I keep a relatively curvy, thick fleeced breed who hide their weight loss very well so I check their bcs throughout their pregnancy. They often start out with a little extra condition at tupping time but lose it by the time that I am introducing hard feed. I dont feed anything like the level of concentrates that you feed as it would be too much for my ewes but I do start a trickle feed 12 weeks before lambing rather than the recommended 8 -6 weeks. So I use 2 shallow steps of increasing nutrition rather than a number of steeper increases as it suits my ewes.


  If you have a nutritional plan which suits your breed and your system, produces fit ewes and good lambs then stick with it. I will never really know if my supplements are excessive and unnecessary but the ewes come through their pregnancy fit and well, produce multiple strong healthy lambs and lots of milk. So it's not worth me changing the system.

[SallyintNorth]

Why do people lamb so early? Why not wait and time lambing for when the grass is growing? Then you won't need to feed anything to ewes but grass/hay

I (and many others) have lambed 600 to 1000 ewes and hogs outside in April and never fed anything but grass---for 25 years +

On the other hand, by lambing some of our ewes earlier, we get their lambs away straight off their mums, never needed wormed, never seen a fly, never even been handled some of them!  No castration stress, no weaning stress, no meds.

But yes, of course, each of us has to think through the pros and cons of the different systems for our place with our climate and our breed(s).

[SallyintNorth]

Loved your 'before and after', Womble 

So yes, now you know.  You are a sheepkeeper and your destiny is to always worry and hopefully not have to learn too much the hardest way '

[Buffy the eggs layer]

I have just re read your initial question Womble and realised that you were asking how much to reduce your feed ration by if you introduce a high energy bucket in the last 6 weeks.


Because ewes have gradually increasing nutritional demands throughout their pregnancy from placental development through to lamb growth then they should be on a rising plane of nutrition accordingly.


In the first and second trimester these demands will usually be met with grass, hay and potentially an energy lick or small amount of concentrate as appropriate. If nutritional levels are low or fluctuate in mid pregnancy this can cause the placenta to enlarge in order to allow greater nutritional support to the lamb. If feed level then increase this can lead to higher levels of nutritional absorption which can then lead to lambing problems with extra large lambs.


During the last 6 weeks when the lamb growth places the largest nutritional demands on the ewe, even a ewe with extra condition can be on a metabolic knife edge in terms of effective utilization of what is going in regardless of her BCS. For this reason I would not ever reduce my ewes ration but would either increase it very gradually while monitoring their BCS or just let it plateau until lambing if I thought they had, had enough.


I realise that the course that you attended has made you worry about the consequences of overweight ewes but as Zwartbles are longer legged and bodied than my girls they may not experience the same level of rumen capacity reduction in the latter stages and may indeed need the increased levels of feed that you listed. In normal conditions ( not pregnant, ill, stressed etc) it would take around 6 weeks for a sheep to loose or gain 1 condition score. So in the last 6 weeks of pregnancy it is unlikely that the addition of an energy lick in addition to their required ration would make too much difference at this stage.


What Does Farmvet think?

[farmvet]

I agree with you buffy the egg slayer. I would be more concerned that your under feeding than over womble. Your not that far away so I cant imagine you've much grass growing yet - its snowing heavily here.  you can safely feed 600g till lambing.  make sure its a good quality 18% ewe feed. A crystalix as well is fine. plus adlib hay.
However if your not feeding the manx & have no spring grass I would give them a lifeline or equivalent bucket. They are likely to be short of protein & minerals otherwise which could affect colostrum & milk yield plus lamb viabilty & reserves.
Stop panicking about lambing. Zwarbles & manx are both easy lambers and I doubt you'll need to give any assistance. Very occasionally you'll get 2 lambs coming together but zs usually have huge pelvic space for their size. They lamb huge texel embryos easily. Just get a comfy armchair by the fire & peak out the window with the binoculars occasionally.....