[trish.farm]

Advice please.  My ram and his friend are on loads of grass, turned out there 4 weeks ago.  Shorn ages ago, not outward signs of illness, no flystrike.  Ram has lost serious weight over the last week, now looks like a skeleton.    He is scouring, quite weak and not really interested in food.  Have wormed him this evening and crossed my fingers that it doesnt tip him over the edge.  Any other illness or disease that could cause rapid weight loss.  His friend is fine, fat and healthy.  Many thanks.

[Hellybee]

Copper poisoning, teeth, worms, perhaps he s found a toxic plant...whatever it is I hope he improves for you xx

[novicesmallholder]

Liver fluke?

[Hellybee]

You could try him with a little ivy, as most sheep even poorly ones will hardly ever turn it down.

[SallyintNorth]

Fluke. 

Could be Johnnes - but I wouldn't have thought that would be so sudden.

Good luck 

[trish.farm]

Hmmm, wormed him tonight but not with fluke wormer, read the bottle and it said dont give to animals in poor condition, now i will have to worm him again in the morning with fluke wormer and the poor boy will be swimming in wormer!! I knew something like this would happen this week.  We go away for 1 week every year to the Scilly Isles, its taken me 3 weeks to prepare to go away this weekend, military organisation to get the right people to look after sheep, lambs, cows, calves, chickens, horses, 60 livery horses, 2 dogs (taking 2 with us) and the house.  Now i am going to be panicing about my ram!!!  Do you think worming again with fluke will be too much??

[Bramblecot]

Personally I wouldn't give him a second dose.  Can you take him to the vet for a check over? 
Enjoy the Scillies, lovely place.    he is ok.

[SallyintNorth]

Firstly, give him a flukicide, not a combination fluke / wormer.  Even then, bluntly, in his condition, and on top of such a worming dose, it might kill him.  But if it is fluke, by the sound of it, you need to treat aggressively anyway.  So the concern is that it's not fluke, and the meds kill him.  If the alternative is Johnnes, he won't recover anyway  .

There are some other worms, which may or may not be treated by the treatment you gave him.  For instance, coccidiosis (though adult sheep are normally immune), or barber pole worm (which I have read about but not experienced.)

And as others have said, there could be poisoning.  Or other digestive upset.

Might be worth phoning the vet to see if they help you do a diagnosis, or maybe offer a FEC or something, or advise on best option flukicide if they think that's the best course of action.

Again, good luck 

 

[trish.farm]

Just googled Johnnes disease and he looks just like the pictures on all the write ups.  Anyone got any experience of this?  I understand there is no cure etc etc.  It is obviously a bacteria in the pasture, how long does this bacteria affect the pasture?  Will his mate have it too??  Paddock hasnt been grazed since 1st of April but i had a very thin ewe in there then who abborted premature lambs when i took her home and had to be shot.  Now beginning to think that it is something to do with that paddock.  Will fluke him in the morning and bring him home but will i then be contaminating another paddock??  oh why cant livestock keeping be easy? I worry so much about my beasties. 

[ScotsGirl]

It can be identified with a blood test in sheep (fec test only works in cattle). I don't think it would cause the weight loss so quickly. Might be worth a multi vits boost. Have you spoken to vet. Take an fec sample which should identify worm burden and type.




My ewe had lost loads of weight but I put it down to the lambs but she went off her legs and I had her put down today as definitely looked like CCN. As long as he is eating and drinking there is hope. 

[SallyintNorth]

Trish, if it is Johnnes it is highly contagious through the faeces. To the extent that our vet says to make sure the contractor who spreads our muck has properly washed out after his last job.

And of course it is dangerous to cattle too.

I have no experience of it, thankfully for me but not helpful to you.  Sorry.

But yes the vet will be able to do a blood test.  I would suggest, as you think you may have a contaminated pasture, you get bloods taken asap, so that even if he dies (sorry), you will still get the results and know if you have the disease on the farm.  Then take the vet's advice about how to contain / eradicate it.

However, it could also be something to do with that pasture.  Excess or lack of some nutrient, something poisonous, something they catch from the wildlife there - could be a number of things.

[kanisha]

dental problem

[farmvet]

Worms is the most likely. A faecal egg count may help but often the problem is immature worms that aren't yet producing eggs.  Hopefully he'll stop scouring in a few days & put weight back on quite quickly.  Johnes rarely causes scour in sheep, unlike cattle, usually just wasting and death. Tups seem to go down incredibly quickly with worms but often improve just as quick after dosing.  Speak to your vet if he's not picking up in a couple of days

[ZaktheLad]

Could it be pine?

[Hellybee]

I was thinking gsummat like that but does pine occur in older animals? 


Saying that though if you are in an area lacking In cobalt and selenium ( we are) and so use drenches etc that have a trace of it.   Wouldn't a jab of B12 help in that situation as a read that b12 helps with the uptake of such elements? Xx