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Author Topic: Rather discouraged - prices at mart  (Read 10182 times)

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Rather discouraged - prices at mart
« on: May 27, 2014, 06:55:05 pm »
So I swapped from Rough Fells to Shetlands, because I'm on my own now and I don't have good sheep pens (I don't have any sheep pens!) or any way to build any, and the Rough Fells, much as I totally love them, were more than I could manage.

I can manage my little Shetlands in the wooden-hurdles-and-string race that I have made.

But.

I just took 7 tup hoggs to the mart. The spring lamb trade was excellent, they were fetching £130+.  My Shetland hoggs weighed 31kgs on average, one weighed 36kgs and they put him through separately. The spring lambs that weighed 36kgs fetched £75-£80. Mine fetched £21.

Now granted they were lambs not hoggs, and there is more meat on a Texel than there is on a Shetland. But not four times as much!!

I can't afford to keep sheep if this is all I can sell them for. I don't have enough outlets to sell meat directly and folk round here won't pay much for it anyway.

It makes the finding of a suitable crossing tup even more urgent.

Very discouraged this evening.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 06:56:37 pm by jaykay »

sabrina

  • Joined Nov 2008
Re: Rather discouraged - prices at mart
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2014, 07:00:32 pm »
No wonder you are discouraged.  No idea on the price of Shetland lamb but it will not be cheap in the shops !

ZaktheLad

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Thornbury, Nr Bristol
Re: Rather discouraged - prices at mart
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2014, 07:01:26 pm »
I'm afraid that's par for the course with some breeds at local marts.  You will really only make a good/fair price on commercial breeds such as the texel, suffolk, charollais and their crosses - they will be the ones going over the £100 mark.  At my local mart the Shetland breeds and similar make very little money.  That always been the case at my local mart anyway for years and years. 

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Rather discouraged - prices at mart
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2014, 08:43:24 pm »
 :hug:  I can imagine how that makes you feel.   :(

I could do a big explanation about carcase conformation, butchery costs and potential outlets, but it won't help you any.

Would you be able to sell your hoggs butchered in boxes?  Otherwise direct to a butcher selling rare breed / native breed sheep?   Or local restaurant? 
  Oops, just realised you said you can't do any of that.   :(

If they haven't all gone, I'd buy one butched; we're just about out of lamb here, and I won't have any for more than 12 months!  (He won't let me butch any of our commercials, they're worth too much money, and I don't have any males left over from last year.)

Sorry you had such a miserable day  :hug:

If they're only going to fetch that sort of money in the mart as finished hoggs, you may as well sell the lambs in the store in the first year, hadn't you? 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Bramblecot

  • Joined Jul 2008
Re: Rather discouraged - prices at mart
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2014, 10:24:15 am »
How frustrating :( , I know how you feel.  That price in the mart is an insult to all your hard work.

Shetland meat is so lovely, people don't realise what they are missing.  Is there any way you could drum up trade locally, and sell direct?  I am constantly pushing my lamb/hogget, and it is a effort, but once people have tried it they usually come back for more.  We have bought a cheap freezer so at least we can keep some in store. 

The fleece and skins make some profit too, but it does involve time and travel...

MKay

  • Joined Jan 2013
Re: Rather discouraged - prices at mart
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2014, 04:40:55 pm »
Absolutely ridiculous but that is the way of it, surely you can talk to a few butchers even if you can't sell privately...

twizzel

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Rather discouraged - prices at mart
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2014, 04:46:49 pm »
Problem is people at market buying finished hogs will be local abattoirs, butchers, processors with large contracts etc and they will want a fleshy commercial carcass. So if your only outlet to sell finished stock is the market, I think you'll have to breed a more commercial type that will sell better.

I would try to sell direct to local customers (not butchers, again I don't think they would be interested) but if you are really struggling I think your only choice is to breed what sells at market.


bloomer

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • leslie, fife
  • i have chickens, sheep and opinions!!!
Re: Rather discouraged - prices at mart
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2014, 05:38:38 pm »
can't help with market,but shetland tastes delicious (i got some from a TASer last autumn)




Ladygrey

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Basingstoke
Re: Rather discouraged - prices at mart
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2014, 06:00:18 pm »
Hi Jaykay  :wave:

Those prices arent very nice :( not good at all, I found a butcher to buy my lambs off me but I crossbreed my shetland lambs, you can see photos of some of my lambs in the post I put up with some photos in

Either crossbreed your lambs or find someone to buy them off you?


jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: Rather discouraged - prices at mart
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2014, 07:23:02 pm »
Yes, going to use a crossbreeding tup next year, thinking of a blue Texel (reasoning being I prefer the look of them and it'll keep the fleeces coloured and worth spinning too, Charollais don't have sufficient fleeces as newborns for where I live, no-one has heard of Charmoise round here and if they haven't heard of it......I'll leave someone else to educate them and I'll use something they recognise!)

I sent them all Sally, but thanks for the offer to buy one.

waterbuffalofarmer

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • Mid Wales
  • Owner of 61 Mediterranean water buffaloes
Re: Rather discouraged - prices at mart
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2014, 10:42:58 pm »
The price in wales is ok about 60,70 or even 80 ££ for fat lambs. If I were you I would stand at the market and watch them being sold, also any less than 60 and I would say forget it. We have sold some of our lambs, butchered, ourselves we sold them for £60 half lamb each, so that was good.
I hope this helps
the most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, loving concern.

Sbom

  • Joined Jul 2012
  • Staffordshire
Re: Rather discouraged - prices at mart
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2014, 11:12:52 pm »
I have a blue texel tup and I get one coloured lamb a year, and that's out of a half blue texel ewe. Just throws white lambs on all my other x bred ewes so wouldn't count on them all being coloured lambs.....

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: Rather discouraged - prices at mart
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2014, 08:38:13 am »
Hi Sbom,

Can I ask a load of questions?
What are the lambs like conformation-wise? What are you using him on - did they lamb easily enough?
Do you mind me asking where he came from and what I'll have to pay, for a 'non-show quality' tup lamb?

As for the colours, my understanding is that white is dominant, so using a blue Texel on white sheep, would get mainly white lambs. I'd be using him on coloured sheep - he will have two blue recessive genes, so I think I should get coloured lambs. I shall have to try it (if I can find a decent one I can afford!)

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Rather discouraged - prices at mart
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2014, 09:24:09 am »
jaykay, if it's helpful, our tup lamb Cap'n, half Shetland, 1/4 Charollais, 1/8 Beltex, was graded 'R2' at 9 months old.  We had to feed him up a bit for a few weeks after working him. 

For those who don't know, the grading has two elements.  The letters are conformation, the numbers are fatness.  Broadly, conformation is breeding and fatness is feeding.

Conformation letters run EUROP; E is best, R is middle-of-the-road, perfectly acceptable, O is poor and P is p* poor !

Fatness is the same as Condition Score.  It runs 1 to 5, where 2 or 3 is desirable, 1 is too thin and 4 and 5 are too fat.  Some systems also subdivide 2, 3, and/or 4 into L and H - L is the light end and H the heavy end.

Most large buyers pay 'bid price' on R2, R3L.  Bonuses on E2, E3, U2, U3.  Deductions (from bid price) on anything '1', '4' or '5', or 'O' or 'P'.

Buyers in the ring at the mart know these gradings and pricings off the top of their heads, and can read a carcase at 50 paces.  (Although Eblex will tell you you can't know unless you handle ;) )


In our experience, no animal will get an 'E' unless it's bred from double-muscled stock and, on our ground, has had some cake.  It doesn't have to be a lot of cake, but it's high and poor up here, and most of them need more than just grass to build that much muscle in one season.

We are now getting some 'U's from animals that have had little or no cake.

We can get some 'U's from Texel x Mules, but they need caked.  For the most part, Mule offspring will be R2 and R3L, and we can do that on grass.  We also achieved this on the moorland farm, although only with the larger, earlier lambs; the later lambs, and twins and trips, we sold in the store, or kept over winter.

You do of course have to be circumspect with the caking or they start to slab on the fat, and you get penalised for that.

Most large buyers want a minimum of 15kgs deadweight; maximum 21kgs.  Below 15kgs you get penalised, above 21kgs you simply don't get paid for the weight above the cutoff.  (Some companies want 16kg min, some will pay up to 22kgs.)

A lamb which is E or U will probably kill out at over 50%.  So for 21kgs deadweight, you can buy a lamb weighing up to just short of 40kgs in the ring.  This is why the market is always best for lambs weighing 37-38kgs - they will definitely be over the 15 or 16kg minimum, and, if good conformation, should kill out near to 21kgs.

A lamb which is O will kill out at maybe 40%.  So to be sure you don't go under 15kgs deadweight, the lamb must weigh at least 37.5kgs on its feet, or the price must reflect that you may get significantly less for it from the abattoir.

To put that in pricing terms; a lamb which is E2, 21kgs deadweight, when deadweight prices are around £4/kg, will deliver 21 * £4 plus 21 * 0.15 bonus = £87.15 gross.  A lamb which is O2, 33kgs on its feet, will probably deliver 13.2kgs deadweight.  It won't be sent on a £4 bid price, as it will be under spec, but if it were it would deliver at best 13.2 * £4 minus 13.2 * .3 penalty for conformation minus 13.2 * .3 penalty for underweight = £44.80 gross.  Fixed costs per lamb (paid by the consignor) include transport, meat levies and killing costs, and usually total £2.50 to £3 per lamb.  So the good Texel weighing 38kgs in the ring probably nets £84; the adequate primitive, 33kgs in the ring, £42.


If you have enough lambs to need the fingers of two hands to count them, it may be worth asking the fieldsperson of your local mart (or other, larger, nearby mart ;)) if they would be interested in assessing them on farm.  These folks know all the buyers and their requirements, not just the ones who come to the ringside.  On the moorland farm, we found that some of our Swale wethers made R2 or R3L but most didn't have the musculature at the backend, or width, to make R and graded O2 for the most part.  We found that there are markets wanting exactly that, mostly in the early months of the year, and down to 14kgs deadweight too.  So we would sell direct, through the mart but not the ring.  We'd drop the lambs off at the mart, or the haulier's, and they'd go off in a bigger batch.  When our decent Texel x fat lambs were fetching £65 ish (a few years back, this is), the Swaley wethers would fetch £40ish sold this way.

If you are breeding coloured lambs, you may do better selling that way than putting them through the ring.  If they look pretty, most of the ringside buyers will probably assume they are poor conformation!  And at the mart, the buyers are looking to fill the major contracts, not expecting to pick up small batches for those out-of-the-ordinary requirements.  (Especially at the very small country marts ;) )   Whereas the field staff of a larger mart know what lambs are where, and can pull together a lorryload from a number of places when such a requirement comes in ;)

Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: Rather discouraged - prices at mart
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2014, 09:57:51 am »
The Shetlands I took to the abbatoir earlier in the year graded R3L, which I was pleased with - and I've had said they're were a 3, from handling them, so that was reassuring. That involved cake as well as grass and hay.

It's the time it takes to get them there that's part of the problem. Plus the fact that the local buyers paid four times as much for a U3 at 36kg than an R3L at 36kg.

I'll speak to the mart staff and see what they think. I wonder if it's also worth speaking to the 'big buyer' who did buy some of mine. He paid a better price for my shearlings in March. They were bigger (also R3L, I'm guessing 50kg) and it was only just as the very first spring lambs were coming in. He might tell me what he's looking for I suppose.

The problem with just keeping commercial breeds is the same as the Roughs - I can't manage them.

Then again I could just give up I suppose.

 

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