[Mathewr]

Hi everyone

I currently use a couple of 1000l IBC containers to harvest rainwater.  However I'm thinking of increasing my capacity with more containers.

So here's my question - does anyone know how to connect up two IBC's vertically so that one is feeding directly down into the other (creating one super-IBC!) to boost the water pressure?

Thanks
Mathew

[Womble]

Just stack the two on top of each other, and connect the outlets with a T-piece. Then all you need to do is seal up the big hole in the top of the lower IBC to make it airtight, and connect a vent pipe to the top of the lower one that goes up higher than the top of the upper one, if that makes sense!
 

[cloddopper]

Hi everyone

I currently use a couple of 1000l IBC containers to harvest rainwater.  However I'm thinking of increasing my capacity with more containers.

So here's my question - does anyone know how to connect up two IBC's vertically so that one is feeding directly down into the other (creating one super-IBC!) to boost the water pressure?

Thanks
Mathew

Perhaps this might be of assistance to you .

By stacking whilst you will have increased the volume of the available ( full tanks ) water by two.  As such you only increase the water pressure by the amount that's in the top container , as soon as you start to use it the pressure will drop according to the level left.

 Are you able to put a 5 gallon square drum up say 15 to 20 feet feet up a tree or on/in an eve and pump water ( old central heating pump ) up into this height to the   header tank perhaps using a small ball cock on the end of a hose pipe to stop overflowing .
 

The heating pump is a vane type pump impellor so will usually allow it to run if the pressure is too much ( when the lifted  ballcock closes off the feed to the barrel ) so there should be no need to worry about a  by-pass pipe and pressure switches though if you can get them set up so much the better.

 if your not on mains power there are some good 12 volt & 24 electric pumps around that can pump several gallons a minute. Or if you can afford it buy an inverter to convert 12 vols to 240 ..the heating pumps only need something like 60 watts to run .( check the data on the pump side plate.)

 If your interested in a pump,  PM me with your details and meet the P&P cost by PayPal  ( around £10 ish   )  and I'll send you the one I have out in the garage as I've recently purchased a new float controlled powerful sump pump to pump out my pond instead of me using the heating pump .

[Womble]

That's interesting Clodopper. Are you saying put a small header tank up high, then fill it from the IBC using the pump, with the small tank becoming the higher pressure water supply for use?

If so, could you not just use the outlet of the pump itself as the water supply, and save the hassle?

[mab]

I would go for the simple solution:- if you can stack your IBC's for more pressure, then I would simply raise all the IBCs on blocks to that high level; that way you have the pressure boost for all your water, not just the top IBC's, and there's no need for pumps.

[cloddopper]

That's interesting Clodopper. Are you saying put a small header tank up high, then fill it from the IBC using the pump, with the small tank becoming the higher pressure water supply for use?

If so, could you not just use the outlet of the pump itself as the water supply, and save the hassle?

It depends on the volume of water you want to have & what you want to use it for at the higher pressure . 
A central heating pump can whack water out at a tremendous rate .

 I'll do an Arnie and be back ....

[cloddopper]

They seem to be a 6 mrt head of pumped water ( pump always wet so below the incoming water ) and around 45 to 100 litres a minute depending on the height pumped .

 I'm recovering from a stroke my maths may need checking .....

18 foot head in a 7/8 dia pipe presumed  pressure at the bottom end is ...

formula is  ....   h x pi x r squared
 So ....
 216 inches high x .4375 x .4375 x 3.142  = 189 cubic inches of water in the pipe  x 0.0361 weight in pounds per cubic inch of water  = 6.8239 pounds  .

Taking it as  6 psi pressure at the bottom outlet will cover the water friction losses & temperature variations in the pipe & water  .

[Womble]

 
OK, 6 metres of water head is 0.6 barg.
 
However, you're mixing up the formulas for pressure and head, clodopper (static head has nothing to do with area - it's just head. To convert head to pressure, the formula is pressure = head x density x 9.81, which is the acceleration due to gravity).
 
So, if you're pumping the water up to 18 feet, you'll get a flow of 45 to 100 litres a minute up to your headpot.
 
However, if you connected your pump directly to the hose or whatever you're using the water for, you'd still get the same pressure at the end of the hose, but without the hassle of installing the headpot.
 
Mab's suggestion is sound if you've got the space. However, I wouldn't bother trying to raise the IBCs up on blocks. They're designed to stack on top of each other for transport, so just a stack of them - probably less hassle, safer and gives more water storage (albeit that half of it will be at a lower pressure). This assumes that an empty IBC costs less than a pile of blocks to raise the other IBC of course!

[AndynJ]

Womble your formulae is correct but at the same time incorrect because how in our world can you measure density accurately, the norm is to measure 4 x per milli second, again how do you suggest smallholders do that, also the formulae you stated is for 0 ppm if one is using rainwater your formulae wouldn't be correct.

Mathewr if you wish to put Womble's formulae to the test I have an inline ppm tester with electronic switching that I will happily lend to you.
You'll need to temperature control your rainwater in order to stabilise density otherwise Wombles formulae will be nonsense.

Mathewr just enjoy your smallholding
Personally Id put one IBC on top of the other with 2 separate pipes the upper one for the area I needed higher pressure and the lower tank for other area's alternatively Id use the header tank option but with a solar powered 12v pump.
Smallholding x Formulae = compost heap 

[cloddopper]

Womble & Andy I feel you have misunderstood what I have put
 The two things are separate items .

The pump info is a typical wet heating pump supply rate  ( info off the plate on the wet pump  that I have out in my garage ) .

The 6 mtr 18 foot pressure is relating to the weight of the column of water in a 6 mtr long pipe thus equating to pounds pressure at the lowest end .
 
 You could pump from a big ground level interconnected set of IBC's 6 mtrs up up into a 10 gallon header via a ball float control so it does not over flow . there will be six pounds of pressure felt at  ground level if you use a 7/8 inch internal bore take off pipe .

[AndynJ]

Clodhopper I was with you all the way, I'm almost in agreement with you.

It was Wombles formulae I was  at, in a lab yep, back of a barn maybe not

[Womble]

 
Hi guys - I'm sorry, I had missed the replies to this thread.
 

Womble your formulae is correct but at the same time incorrect because how in our world can you measure density accurately.....
 
Smallholding x Formulae = compost heap 

You don't have to! There's no need to be lab accurate here, nor to actually measure the density. Just take it as 1000 kg/m3, and assume it's constant (since it basically is).
 
What I don't get is why you'd pump all the way up to a headtank, just so you can bring the water back down again. Why not just take the pumped supply right to your point of use and save yourself the hassle?  I'm clearly missing something here, but I can't figure out what it is! 

[AndynJ]

Hi guys - I'm sorry, I had missed the replies to this thread.
 

Womble your formulae is correct but at the same time incorrect because how in our world can you measure density accurately.....
 
Smallholding x Formulae = compost heap 

You don't have to! There's no need to be lab accurate here, nor to actually measure the density. Just take it as 1000 kg/m3, and assume it's constant (since it basically is).
 
What I don't get is why you'd pump all the way up to a headtank, just so you can bring the water back down again. Why not just take the pumped supply right to your point of use and save yourself the hassle?  I'm clearly missing something here, but I can't figure out what it is! 

Water in summer in area with 40ppm can weigh as little as 830kg/m3 where as an area with 400ppm in winter may weigh as much as 1130kg/m3 why use a formulae if it's not accurate much more fun using the guesstimate tables.

To pump for example 200 litres to a header tank, could use any old pump whereas if you require an on demand pump & it would either need to be a bypass pump or have good filtration system, you may then need a pressure control valve & switching, plus the running costs would be higher as pump on pump off more frequently.
More to go wrong with a pressure activated on demand pump

[Womble]

Still confused - 40ppm of what Andy?, and which guesstimate tables?   
 
I think I'd be worried about running a pump against a dead head most of the time (i.e. a closed stopcock). At best it's inefficient, and at worst would shorten the pump lifespan. Also wouldn't you still need a filter? After all, if there's debris there to clog the pump, it's going to clog it regardless of how it's used.

[Womble]

BTW, another similar query.
 
We currently have an IBC taking water from our barn roof. I wanted to filter this to remove leaves, algae, bird  , etc, but haven't found a suitable system yet. My main problem is that I have limited space and head available between the gutter and the top of the IBC.
 
I wondered if anybody on here had built a sand filter or similar (I could plumb it into the bottom outlet of the IBC to give more space), and if so, how did you get on?