[Buffy the eggs layer]

Whats the best way to talter train sheep?
I want to get them used to being tied up for foot trimming etc so can you tell me how best to do it. I have a rope halter but I think its a horse one so although its ajustable I think the noseband is a bit big. I also have a small leather head collar which I havent tried but I think it will fit the older ones if not the lambs.
When I got them last week they were loaded using rope halters but the babies hadnt experienced it before and got upset and laid on the floor. Unfortunatly their only experience of a halter as been to bundle them into a trailer and take them to a new home.  The babies are understandably still very uncertain about us compaired to the older ones so I dont want to try it until they feel a bit more relaxed and when I do I want it to be a calm and positive experience for them.
Any suggestions on what to use and how to train them

[Bionic]

Buffy I am totally new to this so don't take my word as gospel but I explained what I wanted at the agri merchants and they sold me a roap halter. Sold for calves but it is supposed to be for sheep too.
I haven't tried it yet but have read to tie them to a gate for short perids at a time, say 10 mins.
 
I am sure the experienced sheep members will come along with some wise words shortly
Sally

[Rosemary]

Food treats always make and experience for sheep more bearable  Oatcakes are a particular favourite of mine.

[jaykay]

That's what I was going to say. I have been putting the rope halter onto the one of mine I want to show, tying her to the fence pole, sitting with her and feeding her treats 

[Buffy the eggs layer]

Yes I had planned to make treats a part of the experience but as yet the babies are not too sure about treats. Charlotte has started to come and nibble a sheep nut or two from my hand but not with any great sence of enthusiasm. Alice comes along too now to have a look at what Charlotte is up to but wont eat the nuts and little Nell dosent come at all.
Ideally I wanted them to be confident with coming up to me and so keen on the treats that they didnt mind being handled in exchange for a snack. I will keep tryining with the treats first before I do anything else.
The rope halters tighten when they pull back and this seemed to upset the babies. Would a foal slip be kinder?
 

[SallyintNorth]

Same as any other animal - pressure and release.

Get them used to the feeling of the halter on their face first; if they like treats, treating them while they wear it without its being connected to anything.

Then clip on a lead rope and gently but firmly apply pressure towards yourself.  The instant they move into the pressure, even just relaxing their neck into the pressure, release the pressure.  (That's their reward - giving in to the pressure releases the pressure.)  Repeat.  Repeat repeat repeat.   After about 25 repeats over a couple of sessions, very gradually increase the movement you expect before they get the reward.

If they pull back, maintain the pressure but do not increase it.  You don't want them frightened or hurt or upset, but they need to know that the only way to release the pressure is to move into it.

The above is why this approach is different to tying them to a fence.  The fence can't go with them to maintain but not increase the pressure, so if they pull back from a fence it gets more and more painful and they get more and more upset.  They often do learn that the only way to release the pressure is to give into it, yes, (or they may just hurt themselves and/or fling themselves on the ground), but they also learn that the halter is to be feared and avoided.

If they start kicking up / getting upset, go back a stage.  Finish each session on a high, even if it's a back to stage 1 high.

Try it.  You will be amazed.

[tizaala]

http://www.llugwy-farm.co.uk/
 
You can get the propper sized halters here. Dianne will make them to order for you. 

[Buffy the eggs layer]

Hi Sallyint,
thanks for that,
 thats how I had planned to approach it just as you discribe as I have with horses and dogs but I noticed that the rope halter that the breeder used tightened but would have needed you to slip your fingers in to work it slack. Even when the sheep stopped pulling back the rope would have felt tight.
I also felt that a rope would bite in more than the flat webbing of a foal slip so I will have a look at something a bit kinder. As you say it shouldnt be something painful that they fear. I will start with Pipin first I think as she is the most confident.
I think the rope one would be fine for a sheep that had got the hang of it.
 

[omnipeasant]

I second what Sallu in the north says about pressure and release. I am sure we have done this topic before, have a look further down the list.

[Blackbird]

Buffy, I haven't tried my lambs with a halter, but have found a dog collar helpful if there's 2 of you to hold them in place while you examine feet, bums etc. I would just be patient with the coming for treats thing. My tiny, shy Shetland ewe wouldn't come near us for the first week or so, even when the Dartmoors were nibbling sheep nuts form our hands. She wouldn't come to the trough either. Then one day she was bold enough to join the others at the trough and eventually take a few nuts from our hands. Then she started trotting up to see us and letting us scratch her chin and behind her ears. Now she will come and lie down next to us, and if you scratch her and absentmindedly stop, she nudges you for more!

[SallyintNorth]

Buffy, with the rope halters you can usually make a knot to hold it snug but not tight - and, most importantly, not tightening - on the nose.  Since you aren't going to let them pull hard against it, it won't bind on itself so much that you can't undo it!  (You would need use a non-binding knot if you were going to tie them to a fence, otherwise you'd never get the thing off.)

[MrsJ]

We've been trying to halter train our ram, Elvis.  He's not too keen.  We were told not to give him treats but I think we might have to resort to this.

[jaykay]

The above is why this approach is different to tying them to a fence.  The fence can't go with them to maintain but not increase the pressure, so if they pull back from a fence it gets more and more painful and they get more and more upset.  They often do learn that the only way to release the pressure is to give into it, yes, (or they may just hurt themselves and/or fling themselves on the ground), but they also learn that the halter is to be feared and avoided

Obviously no-one would just tie it to the fence, let it panic, hurt itself and throw itself to the ground! You sit with it while it works out that if you pull it gets tighter and if you stop pulling it gets looser - which it is in complete control of.

If it's in panic mode, it will do plenty of bucking around on the end of a person holding the halter too and I'd like to see the controlled pressure/release until it had calmed down a bit.

[SallyintNorth]

Obviously no-one would just tie it to the fence, let it panic, hurt itself and throw itself to the ground!

You wouldn't, and I wouldn't, no.  But it is an established and I am afraid very current mode of initial 'training' of foals.  It's called 'swinging'.  There are still a lot of horse folk who think the first training any foal should get is to be 'swung', and won't entertain any further training until this has been done.

[jaykay]

I thought we were talking about how Buffy could halter train her sheep?

The dreadfulness that goes on in the name of some horse and dog training never ceases to appall me.