[SallyintNorth]

You folks seem to suggest that producers should wean piglets before they leave their holding of birth, so I plan to do that.

The two I've sold are going to an organic farm, but will not be reared organically.  The buyer says their organic certification people didn't tell him of any restrictions on wormers nor feed, but our neighbour who is organic thought it would have to be a non-ivermectin (she says therefore non-injectible) wormer, and that he should try to find some GM feed.

He's left it to me to select a wormer.

So - input and advice please! 

• if I don't use an injectible, what are my choices and how difficult or otherwise are they to use?
• does anyone know anything about the collateral damage of any particular wormers? I'd sooner not give his nor mine a wormer that will blast all the soil beasties

Cheers
Sally x

[Fowgill Farm]

Think Verm-X is an organic herbal wormer but not sure how it works you will have to google it. Personally i'd jab 'em and not tell 'em, what they don't know can't hurt them. If they're not going to be reared organically it won't matter anyway. Organic is a load of crap anyway, a pig kept in the dark coal house fed organic food can be called organic
the choice is yours.
Mandy 

[robert waddell]

we use the injectable wormer  used to use the powder sprinkled on the feed but it is very expensive
the 2 you have sold are they breeders or fatteners        after many requests for organic pigs i now know what is required

[Barrett]

I agree with Mandy about the organic thing. Should they want some fancy wormer check out your options with your vet and tell the buyer the cost and it will have to be added onto the cost of the piglets, once the buyer realises the price of the piglets will be more than first anticipated/agreed they may say to use the normal injection.  I always use the injection far cheeper.

[SallyintNorth]

Thanks for the replies so far, folks. 

Looking at Graham's website, I'd have to get 750g Verm-x at a cost of £22 to do the 5.   Actually I'd need only 350g but 750g is the smallest size, so I suppose it's just over £2 per piglet.  Doesn't seem excessive to me - and very easy to use.  But you have to feed it for 7 days, so since he wants them next week, I'd have to give him the rest of their dose and get him to continue feeding it.

I had expected someone to tell me to do a worm count before buying a possibly unnecessary wormer - but is the feeling that it is always worth worming weaners?  If not, I am also tight on time to do the worm count and get the results, and worm if necessary, for him to have them next week - but I really doubt there'll be worms as there have only ever been Gaby & Meg and now the 5 piglets here.  (Plenty of sheep, cattle and horses, but never any other pigs.)

[Hopewell]

I'm surprised that organic standards allows any prophylactic/routine worming at all.

Panacur can be given to pigs in feed. You can but medicated pellets but it is probably easier to work out a dose and just add it to their normal feed.

[SallyintNorth]

Organic is a load of crap anyway, a pig kept in the dark coal house fed organic food can be called organic

I know where you are coming from Mandy, but it's not quite that bad.

Soil Association standards require the pigs to be free-ranging apart from the finishing period, which can be in strawed yards.  But yes, the feed has to be organic.  The land does too, and that's where the concern about non-organic wormer comes from.   I'd rather they didn't end up with chemicals coming out of their piglets' bottoms that kill all their dungbeetles, etc.  And have the same concern for my dungbeetles, too! 

[robert waddell]

agree with Mandy      but if you want them wormed and to be truly organic       feed them garlic the worms shoot right out apparently      but that would only work if the garlic was organic  who knows who cares

[oaklandspigs]

When I last looked them up, the organic standards said you couldn't use wormers prophylactically (that is for prevention), only for treatment.

Verm-x is a herbal, I am sceptical about its efficacy, but am willing to be persuaded, I am no scientist !

Therefore the organic route would be to purchase a worm count test kit from SfS (Supplies for Smallholders), test and then only treat if the count justifies.  But as you say in your case you are probably out of time.

We worm weaners as standard, at least then we know that they have been treated before they left us.  Our last egg count from a sow was none found.

In your situation, I would tend to ask the purchasers what they want you to do, and leave the choice to them.  If they say no, then they left you with the purchaser knowing, if they say yes, then they take responsibility for them adhering to standards, and jab them with a wormer.  If they want you to use verm-x, then you can start this.

[hughesy]

VermX is non prescription so is not proven to work. I read an article a while back where a test was done comparing it to a prescription wormer using 3 groups of animals, the third being a control having no treatment. The vermex treated group came out with the same result as the group that received no treatment at all. I used to use it for my poultry but am not convinced of it's value now. However it is organic and you could sell the animals on with hand on heart saying that they've been treated with an organic "wormer". Come to think of it I don't think even the manufacturer uses the word "wormer" so there's a hint.

[jaykay]

I was never convinced Verm-X worked at all, those results just confirm it.

Panacur is so mild there's about a day's withdrawal for milk in goats (which I've never observed and havent't noticed any problems drinking the milk (only I do)) and only about 7 days withdrawal for meat, compared with 56+ days for some wormers - so I reckon Panacur would be ok for you both?

[Maesgwyn]

If the farmer wanted organic weaners does that mean you would have to have fed your sow organically as well as technically the milk she has beed feeding them would not be 100% and the food you have fed them up to  leaving your property should also be organic? I am not organic thank goodness as it seems a lot of work for little return as it is not as popular as it used to be

[robert waddell]

no you have got it wrong maesgwyn   there is organic pigs out there   it is just the process you have to go through   first you buy pigs  does not mater if they are out a commercial piggery or where they come from they go to a fully registered organic farm  that keeper complies rigorously with his conditions attached to his organic status he gets them in pig either AI or natural service  the sow gives birth to fully organic piglets that CAN be called organic   while the mother still remains an ordinary pig with no organic status
this has taken a few years to fully find out and was explained to me by an organic farmer
i am led to believe that turkeys that come from a commercial enterprise as chicks can be classed as organic once they have been on fully organic premises for 6 weeks and fed organically
unless somebody knows different

[oaklandspigs]

Robert,

My understanding is the same as yours, that you can buy non-organic and then rear as organic, but it is a long time since I read the rules, and I may be wrong!

[robert waddell]

the non organic pigs NEVER get organic status
while the piglets born on the organic status farm are organic from birth
all assuming they are fed and reared 100% organically
which makes it hard to understand when turkeys are classed as organic after a period of time
maybe the organic rule makers work in Brussels