[princesspiggy]

any idea why oxford sandy and blacks arent on the RBST website ( even on their unendangered list) i thought they were british and 300 hundreds years old?

[Rosemary]

I think (only think, mind) that they were extinct and are regarded by RBST as a reconstituted breed, but I'm sure others will know more.

[Bioman]

They are a reconstituted breed. There was only one small inbred herd left so the breed was saved by three main breeders using Large Black, Berkshire and Tamworth. I've met two of the three saving breeders and they stress that it is very similar to the original. Lovely breed we had two last year- amazing meat and a fab beginners pig  I think the RBST is considering at the moment whether to accept it.

[Tiva Diva]

That's right. A RBST representative told me the RBST is considering recognising it.

[princesspiggy]

thats interesting, something new to learn .  is it still a minority breed then, obviously recognized and registered by BPA tho.

[SallyintNorth]

That's right. A RBST representative told me the RBST is considering recognising it.

Aye, Ruth Dalton told me the same.  Chase her in about 6 months she said - and she said that about 7 weeks ago... :tick: :tock:

[gavo]

T he RBST are willing to accept OSBs but they need the breed society to get a move on and furnish them with info they require this has been discussed at the OSB AGM i believe;but we are no further on many moths later. Previous heads at RBST did not recognise their status but they and that view has since changed.It would be a big help to get them recognised help with A.I etc.

[SallyintNorth]

Oh!  I'm sure Ruth told me the info had now been received - this was at the end of May.

Anyone on here from OSB Soc?  Or RBST?

[gavo]

I'm a sec of an RBST group and a member of the OSB breed society and have been actively trying to get things moving.

[Mr Pig]

The first OSB herd book wasn't published until 1985. Historically there were a few animals that claimed in the 1950s-60s to be OSBs but without a pedigree record there was no proof. Almost certainly there was no direct link between these pigs and those that came into being in the 1970s/80's claiming to be OSBs but, as Bioman says, were almost certainly crossbred from other breeds.

The RBST Rare Breeds Acceptance Procedure states that to qualify, there must have been an official herd book for at least six generations which they now have. But it also demands that a breed has been known for 75 years and this will be much harder to prove. I have been through virtually all livestock books published since the middle of the 19th c and references to OSB since (or indeed before) 1936 until the 1950s are virtually nil. Further, a check on the archives of Farmers Weekly and Farmer & Stockbreeder gives no further evidence of the breed being able to fulfil this criteria.

My personal belief is that we know already that the 'unimproved' Berkshire was a sandy coloured pig with black splodges as depicted in Low's book of British livestock in 1840. The stronghold of the Berkshire breed was around Wantage where Berkshire and Oxfordshire meet and that pigs of this type remained in the area and were know locally as OSBs without ever fulfilling the criteria of being a pedigree breed.

It will be interesting to see what evidence is presented to the RBST to fulfil their criteria and whether they accept it.

[princesspiggy]

is this for RBST to recognize a breed a pedigree or to recognize it as rare? i thought (with chickens anyway) that if it can be recreated today, then it is not rare, unless one side of the genetic family was extinct and that prevented it from being recreated again? 

[Mr Pig]

It is both really. If a 'breed' cannot fulfil the criteria the RBST established as a viable, historic breed, then they can't consider whether it's rare or not. Poultry is a whole different ball game as there is no pedigree record as such. It takes quite a few generations of sometimes intense in-breeding to establish a new 'breed' of cattle, sheep, pigs etc. and no breed exists today of any domestic quadruped which is the result of a simple cross between two existing breeds. This is why, for instance, the attempts by certain individuals to recreate breeds such as the Cumberland, Ulster Large White and Lincolnshire Curly Coat will never come to anything meaningful. They might manage to create a lookalike but that is as close as they can get. It's no nearer the real thing than a tribute band or an impressionist on TV and can never be without a detailed knowledge of the building blocks and exact replication of the breeding that went into the original. As that was never recorded and most of the building blocks themselves have changed or disappeared completely, it is a futile effort that can achieve nothing.

[robert waddell]

on the same theme did anybody watch countrywise kitchen last night   and the b*****ks that was broadcast nationwide about mangalitzas being passed of as linconshire curly coats           to much marketing spiv praying on the gullable           no bloody wonder the British pig industry is having problems 

[Fowgill Farm]

I saw some of it Robert, We were at the show Janet Street Porter took her Mangas to and our Ruby bless her tries to get thro the fence and eat them! As shes pedigree GOS she heartily disagreed with their presence in her class, pleased to say the show has now made them go in the Novelty class which is what they are!!!
Mandy 

[oaklandspigs]

pleased to say the show has now made them go in the Novelty class which is what they are!!!
Mandy  

Mangalitzas are a traditional breed from abroad, they are not a novelty or a joke.  They were (and in some places still are) bred for meat, and just as with the Kune Kune have a place in pig keeping and breeding. They are recognised by the BPA and have pedigrees, so don't see why Ruby should think herself superior.  I see no reason why people should not show them, they are judged against their own standard as are all pigs in mixed classes.