[MAK]

Today I tore down the runnerbean plants and fed the green stuff to the pigs.
Do we really have to dismantel our runnerbean frame and use a different bit of ground for next year?
I am aware of the N fixing properties of the beans that may benefit other crops but I would prefer to dig in shed loads of rotted manure for next years beans ( in the same plot).

Any comments or previous experiences with runner beans welcome please.

Martin 

[Fleecewife]

There are two reasons for rotating crops around the plot - to minimise disease and to allow the next crop to benefit from the manure or fixed nitrogen left by the previous crop.  Runners don't really have the kind of diseases which persist in the soil so they can be grown in the same place each year.  I do move mine round a bit but they are in a polytunnel (it's cold up here) so have to be on the north side so as not to shade other plants, which seriously limits where they can go.

[Lesley Silvester]

Do we really have to dismantel our runnerbean frame and use a different bit of ground for next year?
I am aware of the N fixing properties of the beans that may benefit other crops but I would prefer to dig in shed loads of rotted manure for next years beans ( in the same plot).



Martin 

What sort of frame do you have, Martin?  Is it one you made yourself?  I'm using canes but they rot if I leave them in the soil and I hate having to put them up and take them down every year as they are in raised beds, which involves a lot of balancing to get high enough.

[Plantoid]

 It's best to move the beans every year .. dig a two six foot deep trench about 18 inche wide and  fill it to 12 inches deep with old folded newspapers then shove on 12 inches of really well rotted manure and then  slightly ridge it with the soil ( it will settle )  firm things up by treading the ground in .

This gives a hot bed with a big water reservior.. The secret for beans and most veg is to keep the moisture at a constant rate  for continuous steady growth.

 For the frame I  use four plastic covered two metre long green steel garden poles ( from a garden centre ) to make two inverted V 's , lash then together about four inches from the tops.  Then across the tops in the base of the crossing point lash another 2 mtr pole in place this should give you a four legged frame with a cross bar .

 I then pegged each end of the up rights out with two guy ropes at each end ....like a tent  ,using some old 10 mm dia blue poly rope .. about 9 feet long for each guy rope .. this is now a stable frame.

 I then cut 12 lengths of the old rope and taped the end area befor cutting them to give me ropes of about 9 feet long .
 I made 12 pegs out of old roofing battons , each about 15 inches long with a hole big enough to take the rope ,  theaded the taped rope through the hole , knotted the rope at the end , then pushed the pegs into the ground , carefully tying the free end of the rope to the top bar to make a tent shape .
Then put my pot grown frost protected bean plants in at every rope anchor point including  the guy ropes and grew a few spares in the middle as well.

 Taking the frame down is a doddle ,. untie the top bar and remove it, then undo the bean ropes and slide the ropes out of the beans , cut the beans at ground height , compost the tops and dig in the roots
 
My bean poles & ropes have done five years of growing so far.

 This picture that includeds the bean tent was taken last year , rejigging the gardens has not allowed me to get my beans going this year for there is a greenhouse where the beans were and if you look at some of my other posts you'll see just how much work has been done .

[Simon O]

According to our readings on victorian kitchen gardens it is traditional to keep runner beans in one place for a number of years, as noted above due to usual lack of disease, and also I suppose to avoid having to move the support structure which at any rate here in scotland needs to be quite robust and well fixed to the ground so a bit of a hassle to move about, but as with plantoids sceme it can be done

[MAK]

Many thanks all.
I should explain that I gathered some long poles from the wood and lashed them together ( no cost as I found a massive real of string in the barn) to make the frame. It would not take more than an hour to take down but the frame is next to our stream and ideal for frequent watering.  Although the stream did dry up  in august it meant I could save on metered water (cost) and endless walking with buckets to other parts of the veg patch.
Given your comments I will leave the frame as it is but repeat the trenching process to get as much water retaining matter in the ground before I top dress in early spring. Heat is the problem here but we got a big crop with the last beans picked just last week.
Thanks again - great to hear views and take a consensus route.
Martin

[Plantoid]

I've been thinking about what I've posted.. My ancient uncle Jack made his hot bed like I describe but  he used green manure only a few weeks old out the stable or crew yard not well rotted manure .

I'll se what some of my older gardening books say about bean hot beds and report back in a day or so's time.

Daren't do and internet search for it will most likely be porn sites 

[Plantoid]

Found it.

 Good old Percy Thrower 1962 in his master gardening book " Encyclopaedia of Gardening " talking about growing things outside using a hot bed

" Use new  straw based green horse manure ,  build a heap 3 feet high and four feet by four feet base water well , then cover with six inches of quality top soil and place you glass light  growing frame on top .
 
The internal temp should be over 60 oF and after three or four days drop to 60 oF "

[MAK]

Yes - I saw the hot bed principle on Victorian Kitchen garden ( years ago). I don't have horses but may try it with pig straw. Not sure what I will grow though as winters here are pretty cold but spring is short and warm. I may try and get a head start with melons and of course when the heat falls off the bed it will retain water well.
Thanks for researching.
I guess i better get on and dig up my carrots for the store.
Cheers Martin   

[Plantoid]

Where are you living MAK.

Up in Scotland where it can get a bit cool & snowy  I understand that the carrots are blanketed in a foot of so of   clean straw so they can still be dug when needed.

[MAK]

Hi - we live in La Creuse in central France. I think my profile shows us on  a map.
We have warm summers but very cold winters. However last Saturday it was 23 ( 30 in the sun).
It is a VERY rural area.
My 3 neighbours are all old ladies ( all widows over 80). They plant by the moon, only pick fruit on certain dates and now have cellars full of root veg and fruit. In June they picked cherry and Summer apples folowed by the usual fruits and recently apples.This week they have picked Kiwi fruits. Generally they give me good tips in the garden and about the ducks and pigs.  I believe them when they gesture that we will have snow above the knee and very cold temperatures. I don't fancy digging my way to the veg plot then digging down to the straw and trying to hack carrots out of permafrost. 
 Last winter when we bought the house in Dec it was minus 11- then I returned in late Jan ( minus 15) to decorate. Big mistake!! as I only had a log burning cooking range to heat a stone frozen house.

I think the strategy is to store as much as we can in the barns and cellar for "hiver" and keep wood near the back door. certainly I don't expect to be in the garden much even though we have a great crop of sprouts and leeks.

What area are you in ?
Do you have a greenhouse or polytunnel to get things started for the spring?

Cheers Martin   

[Blonde]

Today I tore down the runnerbean plants and fed the green stuff to the pigs.
Do we really have to dismantel our runnerbean frame and use a different bit of ground for next year?
I am aware of the N fixing properties of the beans that may benefit other crops but I would prefer to dig in shed loads of rotted manure for next years beans ( in the same plot).

Any comments or previous experiences with runner beans welcome please.

Martin

Root diseases suchas nematodes will destroy  the fruits of your labour. You can keep your frame there and put another one up else where.  Then you have 2 areas to grow beans but only using one per year. You need to change to a root crop as they dont have the same bugs to affect the  roots.   You also need to add new manure to the area, some lime and dig it all in, some straw would be good for the soil to give it moisture holding capacity as well.