[Womble]

So we sold our aged tup to a great home - yay!

But I also had several other enquiries from people with small flocks who might be able to use a tup lamb instead (either in the 'coming and then going' sense of the word  , or for a couple of years depending on preference).

We have several good tup lambs this year. My question is, will they definitely be fertile by November? They're Zwartbles, and will be 7 months old by then. Is that reliably old enough for them to work, or  am I safer to refer people on to friends with show flocks who lambed in January instead?

[Hillview Farm]

I lamb middle of march. We sponge our ewes so the bulk of them come into season within 24-48hrs. We use our March born pedigree lambs on the crossbred ewes in middle of October so 7 months. They work fine however we only let them work for those two days as to not stunt their growth and the ewes go out in a larger group after with a mature ram to sweep up any repeats.

I would think if they were in a small flock they would be fine

[TheSmilingSheep]

I very much hope it works, since we're using a ram lamb born mid April on our flock mid Novmeber, again 7 months old.  We are retiring his mum though 
I've read that it should be fine - just don't give them too many ewes.
I guess, however, that there's always an inherent risk that the ram just isn't firing live ammunition!

[SallyintNorth]

I can't imagine a 7-month old tup lamb not being able to work.  I've used plenty of tup lambs of various breeds and they've all been ready to work at that age. Admittedly I've no experience of Zwarties, mind. 

I guess, however, that there's always an inherent risk that the ram just isn't firing live ammunition!

Well, that's an inherent risk with any tup, unless buying an aged or otherwise proven one.  And even then, illness could have rendered them infertile since the previous year. 

But in our experience, tups not working is a very uncommon occurrence.   We use 4 or 5 at a time here, all bought unproven apart from the aged Charollais I've mentioned elsewhere; some bought as lambs, most bought as shearlings.  We buy 1, 2 or 3 new ones in every year.  We've had one of our own retained tups fail a couple of times, but have only once in the last 10 years had a purchased tup fail. 

You do need to check his bits over when you buy him though - have a read of the Eblex 'Ram MoT' leaflet.

[Womble]

Thanks all, I've attached a photo of one of the tup lambs just to help with the size they are now.


Naturally none of them would be proven, but I reckon if I advise raddling and changing the colour, if they all 'returned' after first service, that would give a strong hint that all is not well, and would still give time to change tup for a successful lambing.

[Marches Farmer]

Most years we have two or three folks who forgot to book a Southdown hire ram early enough and contact us in October in a panic in case we haven't any shearlings left.  Ours only go out once in a season, for biosecurity reasons, so we've often had to send out the oldest of the late March born ram lambs.  I recommend running them with no more than 10 ewes for 4 weeks and the ewes have always got in lamb.

[SallyintNorth]

With another three months to grow, I should think they'll be fine.

Yes, good advice about raddling.  Or they could buy two and use them together, or, if they need to keep track, each on half the girls and swap after 17 days.

I bought a Shetland tup lamb from Jaykay, originally intending to use then sell.  He tupped everything he was asked to, including a full-grown NoE Mule.  That last I didn't  take to him until he was 8 months old, and I was still dubious that he'd be able to reach.  I thought she was a-tupping again 17 days later, so moved them onto very uneven ground, thinking they'd find an appropriate height differential to use .  In fact, judging by her lambing date, he'd caught her the first time.

I said 'originally intending to use then sell', but of course Jaykay then sold her flock, so my plan of doing the same every year wasn't going to work out.  So I kept him on to see what his lambs were like.  They were excellent, exactly what I wanted. So I kept him and used him again.  And, because we want to merge my flock and the Zwartbles where I'm going, and create a flock with good fleece and a more manageable size than the pure Zwarties, he's had another stay of execution and is going to Cornwall with me, to tup the Zwarty ladies there, and the unrelated girls I take with me.  His own daughters (those I take with me) will get another year to grow.  Fingers crossed the fencing works...

[Tim W]

Our ram lambs get 50 girls each at 7 months old...they are in for 12 days and then replaced with a mature ram. The ram lambs usually cover 35 ewes in this time

[Womble]

I bought a Shetland tup lamb from Jaykay, originally intending to use then sell.

Actually so did we (via Bloomer), and he managed fine too. It seems that where there's a willy there's a way! 

[waterbuffalofarmer]

Mine are ready to work by the end of the year, we lamb april-may and have had crops of lambs from ram lambs before

[Hellybee]

our Des first year tupping last season, he was a shearling. Give em a couple a wifeys n  see how they go?

[fsmnutter]

Our ram lambs get 50 girls each at 7 months old...they are in for 12 days and then replaced with a mature ram. The ram lambs usually cover 35 ewes in this time

35/50 is perfect in 12 days as a cycle is 17 days so that's the ratio you'd expect to cycle during that period.
We used a hebridean ram lamb last year, put out at 7 months old, and he had covered 17/23 in 17 days, then he shared the rest with an older sweeper ram for nearly 2 more cycles and 2 ewes didn't take after that, so we were quite happy with him.