Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: needles (confused)  (Read 6428 times)

smudger

  • Joined Jan 2012
  • North Devon/ West Exmoor
needles (confused)
« on: March 11, 2012, 10:35:49 am »
I have notes from books, courses and dvds and 'advice' from Mole Valley (different in different branches) :-\.

So what do you use for sheep and lambs, under skin and into muscle (too early to use the posh words) and where do you do it ie for intramuscular, leg or neck? Same needles or different bores and lengths?

Any difference whether its antibiotics/Pep or vaccine?

How long can you store vaccine for and best way to store it?  I am about to give the lambs (only 2 ::))  first dose, then give them second with the ewes in a month's time.

thx
Traditional and Rare breed livestock -  Golden Guernsey Goats, Blackmoor Flock Shetland and Lleyn Sheep, Pilgrim Geese and Norfolk Black Turkeys. Capallisky Irish Sport Horse Stud.

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: needles (confused)
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2012, 11:59:48 am »
When choosing your needle size, consider the thickness of the stuff you are injecting, rather than the size of the animal.  So for something thick you will need a white, or perhaps pink needle.
 If you fill a syringe with water and try various sizes of needle, you will see that the finer the needle, the greater the force of the liquid coming out.  As you can imagine, you can cause some tissue damage at the injection site if you use a fine needle and depress the plunger too fast.  So you are better to use a slightly larger needle.  I do use green needles occasionally for lambs, esp for subcutaneous injections, but I inject slowly.
For subcutaneous injections, use a 1/2" needle, for intramuscular, use a 1 1/2" needle for adults or 1" for lambs.

For sites of injection, everyone has their favourite.  Wherever you inject, make sure you have avoided a major blood vessel (by drawing back the plunger before injecting to see if blood fills the syringe - if it does try somewhere else).  You must also avoid the major nerves, so be precise when you put the needle in.
To stop the sheep from noticing the needle, tap the spot a few times with your finger before injecting - they don't seem to notice the final sharp one.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 12:01:20 pm by Fleecewife »
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

smudger

  • Joined Jan 2012
  • North Devon/ West Exmoor
Re: needles (confused)
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2012, 12:43:02 pm »
Thank you fleecewife. Aligns with my training notes but of course not what I've got because MV made me feel like an idiot and sold me something else.  >:(

Anyway I can do the lambs with what I've got. Great tip on withdrawing first to check no blood.

I take it you do injections in the neck?
Traditional and Rare breed livestock -  Golden Guernsey Goats, Blackmoor Flock Shetland and Lleyn Sheep, Pilgrim Geese and Norfolk Black Turkeys. Capallisky Irish Sport Horse Stud.

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: needles (confused)
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2012, 03:38:25 pm »
For breeding stock I give IM injections in the back leg, well away from nerves - that is a bit of a guess because I suppose I'm transferring human anatomy onto a sheep  ;D but I've not hit a nerve yet. We only send males which are not suitable for breeding to the abattoir, and I don't think I've had to inject them close enough to slaughter for it to affect the meat. I suppose I would try to find a bit of muscle somewhere which wouldn't be for eating - neck?  Just above the tail?   I would find injecting into the neck a bit dodgy  :o

For subcutaneous injections I would give them into loose skin over the shoulder, but many people prefer the wool-free bits under the front legs.  The exception is Calciject which has to be injected in 4 places into any loose skin you can find over the ribs.

I wouldn't fret too much about injections - choose a sensible site and be slow and deliberate when giving the injection - flailing stabs in the dark, hoping it will end up in the right place are doomed  ;D

I always have a squabble with my vets about the size of needles they want me to buy, and if OH buys them he always comes back with the wrong size.  Same with syringes - I like 1ml syringes for lambs so the dose can be accurate, but the vet doesn't like me to have even a 2ml syringe but seems to think I can work with 5ml ones.  Our sheep are small, lambs tiny and I like to be accurate.
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: needles (confused)
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2012, 05:07:34 pm »
Most docs that I've read say:
<10kg = 21g 5/8ths"
10-20kg = 20g 1"
20-40kg = 19g 1"
>40kg = 18g 1"

And I've struggled to find places that stock sizes other than these (even getting the 20g or 19g is a struggle unless you go online).  But I'd say 1" is a bit long in some situations.

I keep these in stock:  21g 5/8ths for little lambs, 19g 1" for lambs/hogs, 18g 1" and 18g 1/2" for adults (the shorter ones for SQ, and longer for IM).  I also use a sterimatic injector sometimes which uses a 18g 1".  Also have 16g 1" needles for calcium injections (these need to be a large bore as you are injecting a large quantity).

I do SQ in the neck, and IM in the front edge of the back leg.  IM location and needle length will depend on how meaty your breed of sheep is I guess.  Some meds will specify a location too, or tips for making the fluid flow more easily, so always read the labels.

With regard to storing vaccines / meds - always follow the instructions on the bottle.  E.g. Live vaccines like Hep-P you must use the same day once opened.  It is a pain when you've only got a small flock as you will have to buy two bottles which can work out expensive - unless you can find someone to share the bottles with.

smudger

  • Joined Jan 2012
  • North Devon/ West Exmoor
Re: needles (confused)
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2012, 09:27:09 pm »
Foobar - thx very comprehensive.  I can certainly see the case now for IM in the leg (even if it is a good meat cut) as its away from all the risks of the neck (nerves and blood vessels). Useful to know about 16g for the calcium injections. I think I will stick with 1" for IM, 1.5" would frighten me!  I have a collection of white green and yellow which I think are 19, 20 and 21G. Last trip to MV we were sold the white 19G as it will do lambs and sheep, so maybe it wasn't bad advice after all....

Would you also use 16G for glucose injections and a 1.5" length?

Will print off and save in my 1st aid kit.
Traditional and Rare breed livestock -  Golden Guernsey Goats, Blackmoor Flock Shetland and Lleyn Sheep, Pilgrim Geese and Norfolk Black Turkeys. Capallisky Irish Sport Horse Stud.

Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: needles (confused)
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2012, 08:27:41 am »
I've not had to do a glucose injection yet thankfully.  But I looked it up in Agnes Winter's book "Lambing Techniques" (brilliant book, a must have for any sheep breeder) and she says a 20g 1".

Btw, back on medicine labels - a must have tool is the Noah Compedium (http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Compendium/Overview/), where you can look up product labels/datasheets before buying them.  Very handy if you buy stuff online as you can check the withdrawl lengths, administration instructions etc before you buy.

 

can you get sub cut needles for a vac gun?

Started by Buffy the eggs layer (7.79)

Replies: 2
Views: 1269
Last post January 03, 2016, 02:11:36 pm
by Buffy the eggs layer
How to give needles?

Started by Lostlambs (7.7)

Replies: 12
Views: 13085
Last post March 07, 2013, 03:10:45 pm
by SteveHants
Confused!

Started by Chris H (7.25)

Replies: 3
Views: 1858
Last post December 06, 2012, 04:41:11 pm
by jaykay
Confused about worming

Started by JMB (7.17)

Replies: 14
Views: 6251
Last post May 14, 2013, 12:20:58 pm
by twizzel
Confused about ear tags!

Started by 17AndCounting (7.17)

Replies: 10
Views: 5142
Last post November 18, 2014, 06:27:29 pm
by shep53

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Ark Farm Livestock Movement Service

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2021. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS