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Author Topic: What livestock is required to live on a small holding  (Read 1931 times)

SteveB

  • Joined Aug 2018
What livestock is required to live on a small holding
« on: August 28, 2018, 06:43:26 pm »
Hi, what a minefield of planning buying land & setting up a smallholding is...

My question here is what livestock do I need that are accepted by planning as requiring full time care aka a mobile home can be put on the land to live in.

We intially plan on chickens, goats, bees, worms & rabbits?

Appreciate any advice, thanks


doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
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Re: What livestock is required to live on a small holding
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2018, 11:27:52 pm »
As far as i can see only dogs need you there overnight!  :innocent:
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: What livestock is required to live on a small holding
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2018, 11:50:01 pm »
Ah, but is the dog wagging the tail, or the tail wagging the dog?  It may sound academic, but that's what the Planning Department will be looking at when they assess your application for housing!  ;)
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

Backinwellies

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2012
  • Llandeilo Carmarthenshire
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Re: What livestock is required to live on a small holding
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2018, 08:07:07 am »
Planning laws are set to stop the countryside becoming an urban sprawl.  If everyone with a few hens could get planning there would be no countryside. 

That said it is often possible to get temporary planning for a mobile caravan where close care is needed for livestock... Such as ewes at lambing. 

Most people just buy or rent land as close to their house as possible.
Linda

Don't wrestle with pigs, they will love it and you will just get all muddy.

Let go of who you are and become who you are meant to be.

http://nantygroes.blogspot.co.uk/
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landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: What livestock is required to live on a small holding
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2018, 04:07:15 pm »
In order to get planning permission for anything that is used as a dwelling you need to have a business plan that is feasible for your land and that plan has to show that you can make a living, ie at least minimum wage from your livestock. You also need to prove that it is essential for you to live on site for their well being. So bees and worms are non starter here!


So, of your proposed livestock, poultry would be a possibility, but you would need thousands and all the housing and equipment that goes with them.
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

bazzais

  • Joined Jan 2010
    • Allt Y Coed Farm and Campsite
Re: What livestock is required to live on a small holding
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2018, 12:41:52 pm »
I believe there is a way to have a caravan onsite if you are renovating an existing barn. 
I believe you get 5 years to 'renovate'.

If you can prove then that you have an agricultural business you could possibly get planning for a barn conversion with an agricultural tie.

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: What livestock is required to live on a small holding
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2018, 11:38:30 am »
I believe there is a way to have a caravan onsite if you are renovating an existing barn. 
I believe you get 5 years to 'renovate'.

If you can prove then that you have an agricultural business you could possibly get planning for a barn conversion with an agricultural tie.


You still need a proper business plan though Bazzais, which has to show you can make minimum wage. And that is incredibly difficult to do with just a few acres.
Just look through past posts on here - full of people asking how you can make a living on a few acres; and I don't see a single master plan that is feasible for the average person. :thinking: [size=78%]  [/size]
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

Backinwellies

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2012
  • Llandeilo Carmarthenshire
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Re: What livestock is required to live on a small holding
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2018, 10:10:00 pm »
Has the original poster flown the nest?
Linda

Don't wrestle with pigs, they will love it and you will just get all muddy.

Let go of who you are and become who you are meant to be.

http://nantygroes.blogspot.co.uk/
www.nantygroes.co.uk
Nantygroes  facebook page

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: What livestock is required to live on a small holding
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2018, 01:04:06 pm »
Has the original poster flown the nest?
That is possible - he made three posts on the 28th, all on the same topic. Lots of information given so he may have his answer
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

SteveB

  • Joined Aug 2018
Re: What livestock is required to live on a small holding
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2018, 04:29:36 pm »
Has the original poster flown the nest?
No OP not flown the coupe, just been busy reading soo much on all this stuff...

Quote
I believe there is a way to have a caravan onsite if you are renovating an existing barn.
I believe you get 5 years to 'renovate'.

If you can prove then that you have an agricultural business you could possibly get planning for a barn conversion with an agricultural tie.

I've heard this quite a few times via various articles but when I spoke to a planning advisor I was told this isn't the case. And to be fair why should it be, 5 years to build a barn it a tad long eh!
Has anyone got any actual goverment links stating you can live on land whilst barn erecting as that would be darn useful?

Quote
In order to get planning permission for anything that is used as a dwelling you need to have a business plan that is feasible for your land and that plan has to show that you can make a living, ie at least minimum wage from your livestock. You also need to prove that it is essential for you to live on site for their well being. So bees and worms are non starter here!

But a wagging dog tail might be...  :innocent:

The thing is, my reasearch has shown it's hard to make a living off a small holding, however it's not hard to make a living off the land if allowed to use it for a diverse range of rural businesses activities. But the main parts, security (lot's of valuable equipment on site, livestock need protecting), impracticalities of running Back & forth to the land & home don't seem to be allowed for.
Yet my business plan (partly based on experiance) forcasts a positive boom for education, tourism & employment in the local area.
I wonder if going in I should just be open & inform the planners of my 10 year long term plans which do include living on the land.
Mmm  ??? ???

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: What livestock is required to live on a small holding
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2018, 05:11:32 pm »
If you can get a conversation with them, which may have to be by paying for a ‘pre-application’ visit, you should find you get lots of useful input and guidance on the sort of thing your planners look favourably upon, and which not.  Don’t expect them to approve every application for things they say they like, but it gives you a good insight into how they view things.

If your ultimate goal is something they would like to support (especially if it creates jobs and or brings money into the area), they are likely to be happy to work with you to help you achieve it.

Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: What livestock is required to live on a small holding
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2018, 07:33:56 pm »
If you can get a conversation with them, which may have to be by paying for a ‘pre-application’ visit, you should find you get lots of useful input and guidance on the sort of thing your planners look favourably upon, and which not.  Don’t expect them to approve every application for things they say they like, but it gives you a good insight into how they view things.

If your ultimate goal is something they would like to support (especially if it creates jobs and or brings money into the area), they are likely to be happy to work with you to help you achieve it.


Would that that was true!
I'm sure there will be some planning officers who are helpful and will tell you what kind of enterprise they would possibly support. But in my (admittedly limited) experience of three different authorities, the default answer is "You can't just live on a few acres of land. We would not support any sort of planning application, so it's a waste of time trying." Their job is to inspect planning applications and decide "yes" or "no". Not to provide you with helpful suggestions on how to successfully navigate the planning jungle.


I believe the right to live in a caravan while you are building a barn is correct. In fact, I believe it applies to any building that you are putting up and it is for security reasons. Obviously, with an agricultural venture, a barn is the only thing you are likely to initially get planning permission for, and that is why it is commonly mentioned in that context.
As you say, 5 years is a long time for the building, but the permission is actually phrased as only valid for "up to" 5 years, so people don't string it out for ever.


Without wishing to sound bleak - agriculturally related businesses are not the same as agriculture and do not require the same necessity to live at your business premises. Like you say, it is possible to make a living with a few acres. Traditional starter farms are pigs, poultry, calf rearing etc where  the animals need a 24 hour presence. I know someone who makes a living from hatching and raising pheasants, and he got planning for a log cabin on site.
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: What livestock is required to live on a small holding
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2018, 11:43:18 pm »
I was speaking generally, and we do have a good relationship with our planners.  They have helped us put things in a way they’ll approve.  But yes, it’s a different kettle of fish getting appro to live on land which currently has no dwelling. 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

greenbeast

  • Joined Jul 2014
Re: What livestock is required to live on a small holding
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2018, 10:09:39 am »
Regarding the living on site while barn building, yes technically, in the same way you can live in a caravan while build a house, any such engineering works counts. But no you'll not likely get years and years to do so. The intention is that it's a full time thing, and as such shouldn't take 5 years.

 

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