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Author Topic: Planning access help  (Read 890 times)

Shinding

  • Joined Jul 2016
  • West Wales
Planning access help
« on: July 18, 2018, 07:26:21 pm »
I'm hoping there's some planning experts out there who can help us: we've had planning permission granted for creating a small, off-grid glamping site but subject to a condition in respect of visibility where we have to follow the Planning Guidance Notes - Highways Vehicular Access to Highways, specifically following layout 6B which states our driveway opening to the road has to be 16.5m wide and the gate set back 6m from nearside edge of carriageway opening inwards.

I notice that "typical layout 6B" states that it is for "access from a large agricultural field (1 hectare of more) low-speed, lightly trafficked County unclassified road".

Our access from the unclassified road goes up our driveway to a gravelled parking area and then a little onwards to our main house - not into a field. Our field is a separate, gated area off the gravelled parking area.

Does anyone know if this layout does (legally) refer to our set up if the access is not directly into a field.

Sorry if the above is convoluted, but we're feeling panicked if we do indeed have to widen our driveway to 16.5m. By the way, we're based in Ceredigion.

Many thanks.


Shinding
Voss Electric Fence

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: Planning access help
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2018, 05:27:20 pm »
Put it like this Shinding - as it says on my avatar -"Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools."


You may find that certain of the "Guidance" given by so called planners  is incorrect and in a lot of cases they do not have the knowledge or cannot be bothered to properly research advice, and so just tell you what seems logical and easiest at the time.
To get a strictly correct answer you would probably need to consult a planning professional (do NOT go back to the council) as it is highly likely that advice you get on here is mere personal opinion. And my personal opinion would be that you do not have to enlarge your drive entrance!
However, as a parish councillor, having seen loads of planning applications and what people get away with, and having put in several planning applications myself and found out what I myself could get away with, I'll give you the benefit of my experience!
The most difficult bit of obtaining planning permission is actually obtaining it in the first place. Once you've got it people forget about the conditions that have been imposed, unless it's something you can't miss like knocking down a building before you start. So in your case, I wouldn't worry about this layout 6B. The planning authority would only come back to you if someone complained to them that you hadn't complied with this condition. And why would anyone care, even if they bothered to look up what it meant? The planners do not themselves come and check up on you.   They rely on local people reporting you. I am assuming that this is a low key development that essentially does not affect anyone else so I really wouldn't do anything about your driveway.
In the worst case scenario that you really should have widened your drive, and in the unlikely event that the council get back and insist you do it, then you will have to. But it's hardly a hanging offence and they'ii just contact you and point it out. In the meantime - why go to the expense when it may never be required?
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

Shinding

  • Joined Jul 2016
  • West Wales
Re: Planning access help
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2018, 08:58:39 am »
Landroverroy, thank you for taking the time to reply. In respect of just leaving the drive and going ahead with having guests - can the council shut us down, mid-guest staying, if they deem us not to have complied? Or close our business until we sort the drive?


Shinding

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: Planning access help
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2018, 01:57:08 pm »
No definitely not. They will not and do not have the power to immediately  shut you down if they were to find out that you had not complied. (Not unless you were doing something dangerous, blatant or incredibly controversial, that is, which you are not.)


Your development is incredibly low key and you would most likely get a visit from the enforcement officer to enquire what was happening, or else get a letter informing you that the access issue must be sorted, and they would give you time to do it. You could at that stage then ask the question you have asked here as to how this layout 6B applies to an access off your private drive, and get it properly explained.
Are you sure you have read the regulations right?? I've tried looking it up and cannot find any reference to layout 6B.
No way can you be expected to widen your driveway to a width of 50ft. How on earth would you fit 50ft gates??
I have a small industrial estate and get HGVs and alsorts going in and out, and we only have a 12 ft entrance. On second thoughts it would appear that you need to ask the council to clarify their entrance requirements.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 02:11:11 pm by landroverroy »
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

Shinding

  • Joined Jul 2016
  • West Wales
Re: Planning access help
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2018, 05:36:23 pm »
It does seem ridiculous what we're being asked for (I attached the layout guidelines we're being asked to follow when I posted my first message here).

We've improved our visibility play to 42 metres but widening the driveway for such a small glamping site seems unnecessary.

I have asked them why they're asking us to follow agricultural guidelines and I'm awaiting a reply.

Shinding

bazzais

  • Joined Jan 2010
    • Allt Y Coed Farm and Campsite
Re: Planning access help
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2018, 10:28:35 pm »
I know of another campsite that newly opened and did have to comply - they also had to seek separate planning to remove the hedge to comply. :(

Shinding

  • Joined Jul 2016
  • West Wales
Re: Planning access help
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2019, 07:44:47 pm »
Big delay replying I'm sorry - did the new campsite you know about have to comply after they opened or was that before they had opened?

Regards
Shinding

Kiran

  • Joined Apr 2019
Re: Planning access help
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2019, 02:35:54 pm »
Hi hopefully I can shed a bit of light on this. The 16.5m width is a visibility splay. This would taper over a distance of 6m to where your gates would presumably be. The reason is for safe exit from the land onto the highway. The 6m is so a vehicle can pull off the carriageway if, for example, the gates were closed.

On the letter granting you planning permission is the condition listed as a pre commencement condition or a pre completion condition?

If you chose not to comply then you would potentially be in breach of your planning permission. If you breach planning conditions then they will write to you and give you a period to correct this. If you comply then that is that, move on and enjoy. If not they can take you to court to make you put it right. The only time you would be shut down straight away would be if there was immediate danger to the public and/or other road users.

 

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