Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: private land/smallholding/community  (Read 4269 times)

New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
private land/smallholding/community
« on: June 15, 2018, 05:29:32 pm »
Hiya!

Hopefully this is the right place to put this on this forum of other accidental smallholders! So please let me preface this as no judgement on those who do this, so please do not judge me for not wanting to! But I believe there will be some on here who can identify with this, and I'd love a way to deal with this - gently, firmly, diplomatically.

So we procured a small piece of land (just 2/3 of an acre) 1 year ago, we do a lot of work on it, gardening, goats, chickens, a dog, a cat - and the occasional wildlife rescue! This is apart from both of us working from home, actually doing employment as the farm isn't our livelihood, and unlikely to be so.

So we sell our eggs to locals, and we're often outside, so chat to people who pass by and are interested in what we're doing and generally we're happy to talk about it (sometimes it can be mildly challenging as we're trying to get things done and a few are unable to understand we're trying to actually do something and need to do it while we're not working, and it's dry enough to work outside). But that's manageable mostly - but we have the occasional passer-by who will think we want to be the next petting farm/community project. Sometimes when people come by with their children, we'll try to take them up to see a few animals, interact with them a bit. This is mostly fine - with the occasional inconvenience. What goes too far is that some will say - oh I have a Boy Scouts group that would love to come! We don't even know them, much less this group, we don't have time to manage these things, and don't want to. Or they say, my child can come help a bit, or my Aspergers child would love to spend time here and help you. All of these are wonderful things, and ideal for those who want us to become the next therapy, child-minder, community project - and it can be nice for people who choose to do those wonderful acts within the community.

But we're not it. We're two people - making the best of this land but it is work, a lot of work. We're learning, always, about goats and hope to kid them, milk them - but that means care and time to learn and know what we don't know yet! We have pets that - for me is the primary concern, and will always be my reason for everything - I need to care for them. I spend a lot of time managing my husband to make sure he closes gates (lest the goats decide to destroy our neighbours' cars, or eat something poisonous and get sick), we are building things and have nails, broken wood, a river, sharp things and I cannot watch all of this, nor do I want to. I work, manage land, animals, and whilst their children may be a real boon to the work - I'm not really seeking this, and don't want that job of managing it.

I am sure that there are others on here that can identify? I have to imagine a lot of vets, farms, zoos, etc get well-meaning people who want to 'help' but it isn't help if it's actually more work, and that's not what someone set up the zoo, vet, farm for - at least not in all things. Vets, decide to work to help animals health and well-being, they don't want to have a child-minding area when they have surgeries and animals sick and possibly aggressive. Farms, choose to work hard on their land and with their animals, but they don't necessarily want to become the next teaching facility in farming, especially if they are just 2 people, and this is their private home and they work full time as well, and zoos, whilst being a teaching facility and open to children, cannot allow children to feed and interact with those animals for both parties well-being. some of those examples have multi-staff and people to make decisions at the high above level, away from public, and those on foot to administer it - and say 'it's the rules here!' We unfortunately don't.

So now that the rant is over a bit, I am sure that many of you have this - i know from buying chickens that many on websites say 'don't just drop by, we're a home here!' and can put some rather firm things which I suspect comes from public thinking private homes, with farms, are just waiting for visitors, kids, etc to visit, help, buy, whatever. It's well-meaninged of course, but like trying to walk an elderly person across the street - they may not want it, or need it.

So again I preface, no judgements on those who joyfully choose to do this, and make their land into a welcome respite for others. We do as well, just that we've got limits too! And no judgements on those who ask - they believe this with good intention! But how does one deal with this delicate situation? We don't know them very well and they aren't always getting the picture that we're not child-minders, we can't be - and care for everything else, we don't have the time to be, we may not want to be, and - sorry to be indelicate - we didn't get this land, so that we could make this a regular visit for groups, whilst - possibly we pay for vet visits because a goat gets out, loss of work time (££), loss of work time on the land as it needs clearing, building of infrastructures like fencing, sheds, and let's face it - with a small farm you are always repairing, and making it more secure or better built -
 it's a lot of work to manage it - while we manage groups we can't manage on a volunteer/community basis.

Sorry for all of this hope you guys can help with this difficult situation! I'm happy to be welcoming and neighbourly - just cannot take on that sort of job of free work, whilst our lives and livelihoods are held. We need our jobs, and we need to maintain this land and the animals needs.

I am sure that many of you know this, so I understand that I may sound ranty as a preach to the choir, it's for those who may read and not understand why this isn't a welcomed idea.

help??!!??
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 05:42:28 pm by New Riverside Farm »

Backinwellies

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2012
  • Llandeilo Carmarthenshire
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Re: private land/smallholding/community
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2018, 05:47:47 pm »
Quite a rant!   Maybe you are just a bit too friendly and welcoming to everyone? I don't really see the problem just be polite and maybe a little less 'open door'.   Explain it costs a fortune to insure to have any 'helpers or visitors'  to the 'occasional passer-by' who pushes their luck.

Alternatively cash in big time!!!
Linda

Don't wrestle with pigs, they will love it and you will just get all muddy.

Let go of who you are and become who you are meant to be.

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New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
Re: private land/smallholding/community
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2018, 05:57:29 pm »
Thank you for the information and sorry for the rant!  ;D It's just so hard to deal with people who don't grasp that this isn't ideal! I love to be nice to people and we're fortunate to have land, many in this country don't, but we've got limits! And my limits, start, stop and all inbetween when we get those who think we did this all for them, instead of  - it's for us, and we're happy to be nice - if that makes sense?

But I like that you say about the insurance! Good point - I was wondering about that as we have heras fence around, as temporary measures in some cases, and in others our best bet in keeping the little escape artists that are goats, in their pen! But we got it 2nd hand, and often - not around the goats - it's broken, mangled, etc - not a good combo with kids.


Scotsdumpy

  • Joined Jul 2012
Re: private land/smallholding/community
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2018, 08:02:05 pm »
Don't feel bad and don't feel pressured to do something that you really don't want to do. Whilst not in a 'roadside' position we often get comments from colleagues, acquaintances,  other smallholders etc to open up our woodland and smallholding to the public. Our insurance is costly enough without factoring in the paying punters - the right to roam in Scotland has to be covered by a public liability insurance. If you were to consider something along these lines the cost of providing facilities for handwashing, toilets, etc and getting trading standards to pass your facilities - are all good ways of explaining its not as simpleas ppeople think!

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow: where 2nd-home owners rule !
Re: private land/smallholding/community
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2018, 09:30:02 pm »
Backinwellies & Scotsdumpy have nailed your reason for not being accommodating:  insurance!

"I wish we could allow the scout group [et al] to visit, but we are not insured to cover accidents or goat/dog/cat bites or chicken pecks". 
or
"Really enjoyed meeting you/our chat, but gotta go as the vet is due shortly to check out our goat-tick infestation."  [Scratch]
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 09:33:10 pm by arobwk »

bazzais

  • Joined Jan 2010
    • Allt Y Coed Farm and Campsite
Re: private land/smallholding/community
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2018, 10:58:25 pm »
I totally hear you on the majority of this - our farm yard is split in two by the pembrokeshire coast path - it literally runs through our whole farm with gate 1 being our farm entrance. We also have a campsite that fills with families in the spring and summer

Get so so so so many people asking to stay long term in caravans in return for work, its like I moved to the middle of nowhere so I could get away from neighbors mate. 

So many people walking straight into the house as they think its some kind of business, its like dude this is my frickin living room youve just walked into.
So many people knocking the door at god knows what time in the morning looking for christ knows what or where, its like ffs does this look like a dairy farm, you think Im up at 6 in the morning?
So many people thinking it would be great to start a petting zoo, its like no frickin way, do you see any kids in my house, no, lets keep it that way.
 So many people asking if their kids can come work over holidays, as above int it.

So many people wanting to come and 'help out', to be fair I'm up for a bit of a help out anytime
Lots of people with kids wanting to know if they can 'help' feed the animals, taking ten times longer than ever before.

And just because we got a fair few showing and retired ponies about everyone thinks we should open a riding business, its like you cant ride any of them and sod taking people out on ponies

So many kids wanting rides on quads, climbing on tractors, nosing around the yard, its like go up the fields and play, grrrr.
To be fair I wouldnt have it any other way really - we do have to advantage that we can earn money off the ones that stay and camp - and I'm pretty good at hiding when walkers come through, the dogs let me know whenever anyone is coming and if I do get into a doomed conversation of boredom it would be easy to break off as my dogs will be continuously barking and I wont hear them anyway.


I've thought of diversifying a bit - but in all honesty the public are fickle and a big risk to work with as it only takes one accident or one chancer and your knackered, its all got to be above board and well run, its another business in itself and I for one dont need another job on my hands at the moment

Rupert the bear

  • Joined Jun 2015
Re: private land/smallholding/community
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2018, 11:26:21 pm »
I've found when we first started here workmates, friends and the damm nosey all wanted to visit the animals / play /camp in the woodland /fields/ride the horses. It got to the stage we just had to say no.
Only on one occasion an old farm servant and his carer came into the hay park as I was turning it with a very old cockpheasant turner, he was made very welcome as he had used one when they were brand new, and knew how to set it up correctly, I let him turn the rest of the hay.
I met his carer some time later , she said that was all he had spoken about for months afterwards.

Nowadays I find standing naked with a loaded shotgun in the yard deters (most) unwanted visitors

Lesley Silvester

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • Telford
Re: private land/smallholding/community
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2018, 01:20:51 am »
I was going to suggest using lack/cost of insurance as well but I do like the suggestion about the vet and the goat ticks.


Your rant made me think of the time my ex and I had a spinning and weaving workshop which we ran from a room in the house to start with. I put a screen across the hall to stop people walking into my living room but some thick skinned individuals even moved it so they could go elsewhere in the house. We had visitors' children going upstairs and getting my children's toys out (and leaving them for my children to clear up). And then there were the people who asked if we made a living at what we did and when we replied that we did our best would say, "But do you actually succeed in making a living." Would they like it if we asked what sort of income they made. Very often tempted to say, "It depends if people actually buy stuff or keep us from working while they ask personal questions."


Sorry, I didn't mean to rant there but I can so see where you are coming from. Just another idea. When they want to visit/get their child a job/ camp/whatever, tell them your tariff and make it exorbitant. If any of them accept, at least you will make a fortune out of it.  :roflanim:

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: private land/smallholding/community
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2018, 09:06:34 am »
I think Backinwellies summed up the answer very nicely. If you are busy don't stop and engage in conversation - shout hello, wave, say you must get on and then carry on.




YorkshireLass

  • Joined Mar 2010
  • Just when I thought I'd settled down...!
Re: private land/smallholding/community
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2018, 12:05:56 pm »
Two points of defence - can you set up driveway, egg stall, etc and a gate to clearly separate a "public" zone and a no-access zone? E.g. a front path to someone's door is sort of public as you get visitors, postie, trades, etc. But most people know that it's rude to stray off that path.
Think about herding your visitors like your goats!


Secondly, a cheery "oh we're not set up for visits/kids/etc but I hear good things about *nearest farm park". How can they be mad at you for suggesting somewhere even better for their kids...  :innocent:

honeyend

  • Joined Oct 2011
Re: private land/smallholding/community
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2018, 08:09:21 pm »
I blame a lot on advertising and country lifestyle magazines, they make it look like play and not a job.
  I would section your gate area off and clearly define the boundary of where the public are admitted and the hours you are open and make sure they a customer and you sell them something.
  My mum ran a caravan site from her farmhouse and I can honestly say that apart from paying they hardly ever came to the house, she was pleasant but it was a working farm. Some stayed for months but she had that separation.
  My daughter is self employed and she has trouble stopping people texting at all hours, she has now got the work out of the house she just needs to get them out of her phone.

Backinwellies

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Re: private land/smallholding/community
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2018, 09:50:08 am »

  My daughter is self employed and she has trouble stopping people texting at all hours, she has now got the work out of the house she just needs to get them out of her phone.

This is not so difficult .... 2 phones and turn one OFF out of hours!
Linda

Don't wrestle with pigs, they will love it and you will just get all muddy.

Let go of who you are and become who you are meant to be.

http://nantygroes.blogspot.co.uk/
www.nantygroes.co.uk
Nantygroes  facebook page

honeyend

  • Joined Oct 2011
Re: private land/smallholding/community
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2018, 04:13:47 pm »
She has had the same number since a teenager, so is very attached to it. Some of the worst offenders are old clients, any one new she tries to them to make appointments by her website.
When people now move so often, renting is so common, your mobile phone and email are your permanent address. I have had the same phone number since about 1995. I owned a brick.

Steph Hen

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Angus Scotland.
Re: private land/smallholding/community
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2018, 09:25:26 pm »
Its a shame it's like this. Though I understand.

I used to go help feed the local farmers lambs and muckout age 6. 
Later I'm sure we were a pest putting up tree swings and asking questions - but then many many days of really hard and rewarding work put into mucking out sheds, rounding sheep off the moor, dipping, rolling wool, feeding puppies, hay!, breaking ponies, market days, all sorts. Never paid. This was the 90's. We could go to any place and they'd say 'go and see the kittens in the shed' or ' help get the sheep in', or ' come back tomorrow and help with whatever and we dqid. I'm reminiscing!

Such a shame it's not accessible due to time and insurance and I'm sure visitors attitudes.

Insurance would be your best way out  - and a good brusk attitude. A wave and hello and walk away before they get close.


Rupert the bear

  • Joined Jun 2015
Re: private land/smallholding/community
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2018, 09:27:13 pm »
She has had the same number since a teenager, so is very attached to it. Some of the worst offenders are old clients, any one new she tries to them to make appointments by her website.
When people now move so often, renting is so common, your mobile phone and email are your permanent address. I have had the same phone number since about 1995. I owned a brick.

My mobile number since 1984 when the now Vodafone was known as Racal Strategic Radio  still have the last 4 digits, and still with Vodafone !

 

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