[Southern Northerner]

Some advice needed please.  I've recently had some soil tests done which show my pH values are fine and my NPK levels are low to very low.  No fertilisers have been put on the fields for at least ten years and at present we have five horses and some fifteen sheep (sheep numbers will increase) on 18 acres of well drained land.  I read a short thread on here from a few years ago where there were views expressed about the sense or otherwise of using artificial fertilisers.  I'd appreciate any current views before I take any action.  Thanks in advance.

[Foobar]

Artificial fertilisers are not a sustainable way of farming.  So it just depends on what sort of person you are and whether you want a quick fix or whether you want to "do the right thing" for the environment.


Can you get some muck from a local farmer and get them to spread it for you?


How do you manage your land, it is divided into paddocks?

[cloddopper]

Manure from bovines with their straw soaked in their urine , well composted is perhaps the best if your land is not  highly acidic .

 Horses muck tends to have a lot of weed seeds in it that pass through the horses without being killed as their digestion is quite different to the bovines .

[pgkevet]

I pondered the original question as a theoretical excercise.
I don't believe there's anything inherently wrong in 'artificial' fertilizers particuarly when talking NKP since all the sources from which they will be derived are essentially 'natural'.
What is wrong is the excessive use such that there's run off and pollution by using rapidly-available-to-the-crops forms which will dissolve into ground water or run off.

Nitrogen can be captured from the air.. either the obvious legume fixation or just bacterial activity in whatever else is dumped to rot there. Rich sources from urine, bacteria from animal muck etc will dissolve rapidly.. and one might argue that 'well drained' fields will soak it away to ground water too fast? Phosphate source was classically bone meal and Potassium from potash.. wood ashes from wood burners etc.
If one wanted to be seen as modern and PC then muck alone isn't going to supply the latter two.
Judicious applications of an NKP cheapo source like growmore in modest repeat applications could well do the job well without pollution... but more labour in the repeat process. I did once offer a sustainability article for a national daily.. which they didn't print 'cos it was entitled 'Mince up your dead granny and spray her on the garden' - now that is recyclng :-)

[farmers wife]

compost is the way.  pH readings waste of time means nothing. spending vast amounts on fertilizer is not only a pollutant but also a waste of resources.  rotation, leaving land fallow, Cambridge rolling, harrowing, aerating and topping.  What you want to do is keep costs low but have good quality grass and healthy soils.  With sheep you want the mineral results.  Trouble with horses they can ruin the soils and just endlessly poach and bring up weed seeds.  Strict rotation and keeping them off wet soils is essential.

[landroverroy]

compost is the way.  pH readings waste of time means nothing. spending vast amounts on fertilizer is not only a pollutant but also a waste of resources.  rotation, leaving land fallow, Cambridge rolling, harrowing, aerating and topping.  What you want to do is keep costs low but have good quality grass and healthy soils.  With sheep you want the mineral results.  Trouble with horses they can ruin the soils and just endlessly poach and bring up weed seeds.  Strict rotation and keeping them off wet soils is essential.

An interesting way of looking at things.
Presumably a low input system works for you, but it's not for everyone and nor is it necessarily the only or the best way.
In particular, pH readings may mean nothing to you, but they are actually very important. A low, acidic pH gives sour grass that the animals pick at and encourages weeds such as docks and buttercups which are also rejected. It is therefore very wasteful of the available pasture. A high, alkaline pH can cause mineral deficiencies and even death in the grazing animals.  Many crops are very specific to what range of pH they grow best in.Getting the pH right is therefore pretty important whatever you are growing. 

[Buttermilk]

SD unfortunately no can do on the pig feeding front.  There are legal precedents for this, many a man has left his body to hounds and the only way around the law is to be cremated and then mix the resulting ashes in with the feed.  I suspect anything you leave will be spent on solicitors fees trying to fight the case if you insist.  You may not be rich enough.

[SallyintNorth]

I agree with Buttermilk, I'm afraid.  Best thing to do would be to get your rellies to take your ailing (not yet dead) body to see the pigs (who aren't going to be eaten, because for sure none of us is fit to be in the food chain!), put you in with them and walk away  

I always used to say I thought Meg would know it was me and not eat me if I fell over in the mud in her field, but I was never so sure about Bertha...   

[Womble]

A high, alkaline pH can cause mineral deficiencies and even death in the grazing animals.

Why's that then, [member=6533]landroverroy[/member] ?  Intuitively I'd have expected it to be the other way around?

[sabrina]

I am trying Calcified Seaweed on my paddocks this year. It can be used all year round not just the Spring. I order it through my local Harbro Store. It does say just to use every 3 years. time will tell if I have done the right thing but so far looking good.

[Penninehillbilly]

Quote from SD
[/size]A man after my own heart... I want to be recycled too...my will says I've to be fed to the pigs because burning is an unnecessary waste of fuel and no doubt contributes to noxious gases; burying takes up space that could be used for grazing and pigs or badgers are the only animals capable of digesting my bones, hair and teeth as well as the rest of me![/color]
[/size]My thoughts as well, but I've said I want to be buried and trees planted, maybe fruit trees? So land not entirely wasted. [/color] .


Sabrina, we keep talking about using Calcifert, it would be interesting to hear what you think of it?


This has been an interesting thread, useful info.

[Rupert the bear]

Buried in the bottom hay field with a view over the moss and the forest please, I'm sure I'll something extra to the land .
Hole already dug, I'll be in the company of dogs, cats and a horse that I've loved so much

[sabrina]

It says to use one bag per acre which I have done. Its very easy to see the paddocks that I have used it on so far. Grass shot up, just had them topped last week. I plan to rest these  paddocks all summer so I have grazing for part of the winter. Will be doing the 3 other paddocks in the autumn and resting them over the winter. Price was about the same as a bag of lime wither it will make in difference to the amout of buttercups we get only time will tell. I did spray them in the Spring just as they had started growing but they recovered very quickly.

[landroverroy]

A high, alkaline pH can cause mineral deficiencies and even death in the grazing animals.

Why's that then, [member=6533]landroverroy[/member] ?  Intuitively I'd have expected it to be the other way around?

An over alkaline soil is usually caused in this country by application of several  tonnes of lime in an attempt to rectify an acid soil. That is why, if a soil test reveals your land is very acidic, it is best to apply the lime in more than one application, but over several years, ie at a max of 2 tonnes /acre /year. Applying more than this at any one time will lock up trace elements in the soil - especially copper, zinc, cobalt, iron, manganese, and also phosphate. If these elements are tied to the soil particles then they are unavailable to the plants and therefore to the grazing animals who will then not thrive, and in extreme cases may die. Many years ago I grazed some reclaimed land with my sheep. I knew it was very mineral deficient, so gave them a feed block and mineral licks all summer, and presumed they would be ok. The lambs didn't really thrive, but did eventually get fat. The ewes however, were difficult to get into lamb and some of them just wasted away. The grazing was cheap, but I didn't use it again.
   

[landroverroy]

I am trying Calcified Seaweed on my paddocks this year. It can be used all year round not just the Spring. I order it through my local Harbro Store. It does say just to use every 3 years. time will tell if I have done the right thing but so far looking good.

That is a brilliant fertiliser/soil conditioner Sabrina.


It's not cheap, compared to artificials but is a real soil tonic. It adds a bit of lime which sweetens the grazing, but also contains loads of trace elements which are becoming deficient with modern farming methods. You will find it encourages the clover greatly, which in turn fixes nitrogen in the soil, and you will find the grass is eaten down better and more evenly as it becomes more palatable to the animals. Even fussy equines will noticeably waste less.