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Author Topic: Rust pocks on hydraulic cylinder shaft!  (Read 1592 times)

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow - some say it's in England !
Rust pocks on hydraulic cylinder shaft!
« on: April 24, 2018, 07:02:59 pm »
I'm awaiting response from supplier of my flail mower regarding development of rust pocks, over the winter, on its chromed hydraulic cylinder piston shaft.  In the meantime, any thoughts on the subject please? 

Mower stored outside, but protected with weather-proof cover over winter.  Went to prep for use this week to find myriad of rusty spots breaking through the chromed shaft.  The rustiness is breaking out all round the shaft circumference so I don't think it is caused by external damage (e.g. grit thrown up by tractor tyres). 

Mower is just some 14 mths old: surely I could have expected that chromed hyd' cylinder piston shaft could "weather" better than this.  I'm thinking has to be a problem with the chroming. 

I'm sure supplier will reply soon and honour warranty, but just wondering whether anyone has ever experienced similar rustiness on relatively new hydraulic components on tractor implements?
Voss Electric Fence

Rupert the bear

  • Joined Jun 2015
Re: Rust pocks on hydraulic cylinder shaft!
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2018, 09:19:52 pm »
At 14 months !! Noooo !   I would borrow / hire a paint thickness meter to give an indication of the thickness of the chrome plating,if indeed it is chrome , it will give an indication of how many micros , is it a well known make of ram ?  and is it possible to get its specs interdependently of the dealer
A handy tip, I use petrotape on exposed rams and pipework when laying things up for a period of time.

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow - some say it's in England !
Re: Rust pocks on hydraulic cylinder shaft!
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2018, 05:39:38 pm »
Am grateful for your thoughts Rtb.  "Noooo" is what I was thinking too. 

In retrospect, a belt & braces film of oil/grease (or petrotape !?) might have been wise, but that wise thought didn't come to me.  Too late now.

When you say petrotape, do you mean PTFE tape (sometimes referred to as petrotape) or the gunky stuff used for lagging steel pipes?  Surely not the latter ?!

I can't find any markings on cylinder so it will be a generic Chinese item.

Update: 
Warranty optimism ill-founded. 1st offer from supplier was a 23% discount (new cylinder at cost price, apparently).  Of course, I thanked them, but politely declined the offer and suggested free cylinder, but offered to pay for "postage" and self-install, as a gesture.  Response: "Obviously that wasn't good enough for you so we withdraw our offer." - also - "In your case we think that the rust happened because of a lack of maintenance (no oil applied; stored under a cover). Any piece of Chrome would start to rust under that condition."
The current situation:  I have pointed out to supplier that their Operator's Manual makes no reference to oiling/greasing cylinder shaft for winter storage AND that their manual does actually recommend use of tarpaulin for outside storage. Response awaited, but I'm no longer optimistic.

What a pain:  the mower is very well built, but seems that I've found its achilles heel.

Edit:  thinking I might not want a direct replacement at any price (although mine might just be a rogue), but, so far, haven't found a supplier of cylinders, with threaded ends, to match the existing. Hopefully I can resume a "grown-ups" discussion with supplier to get a better price on a replacement and then maybe consider having the original (spare) cylinder shaft re-chromed properly for a trouble-free life (more than 1 winter at least!).
   
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 06:59:20 pm by arobwk »

Rupert the bear

  • Joined Jun 2015
Re: Rust pocks on hydraulic cylinder shaft!
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2018, 08:02:58 pm »
this is the stuff https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p72819?r=googleshopping&rr=marin&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googleshoppingfeed&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIo7bInM7Y2gIVyLTtCh0v6w_lEAQYAyABEgKAl_D_BwE  clean off with petrol !
Use of oil , doesnt seem to last , grease is ok if its a mineral not a lithium soap grease, or even self amalgamating tape

You said the "C" word that says a lot  ;) 
Consider removing the ram and taking it to a hydraulics engineer and as a sample , they have better sources than looking on the internet


arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow - some say it's in England !
Re: Rust pocks on hydraulic cylinder shaft!
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2018, 05:22:09 pm »
Thanks for the link Rtb:  I note it is petroleum jelly based so no major issue with cleaning off residues. 

This "learn the hard way" experience has made me seriously re-consider my tractor storage also:  henceforth I'm always going to retract steering and 3PL cylinder shafts even if just stored for a day.

I think Bowell Tractors Europe might be ignoring my further email: however, I'll wait until Monday to see if i get any response before considering my next step.

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow - some say it's in England !
Re: Rust pocks on hydraulic cylinder shaft!
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2018, 08:17:16 pm »
Well, Bowell Tractors Europe do seem to be ignoring me.  So I have listed a few local hydraulic engineering companies to contact, but so much else to do and the option of ordering a direct replacement from Bowell increasingly seems like the least hassle/immediate solution so that I can get flail mower running asap. I'm irked by the thought, but!
Whatever, just spent the day re-organizing (de-cluttering) my 10' & 20' ISO storage containers: was surprised to find that I can actually manage to store my small AGT tractor and the mower (with all hyd' cyl' rods fully retracted on both) and the rotavator and all other power equipment in the 20 footer, without any real access issues, and then fit everything else into the 10 footer.  Result!   :)

 

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow - some say it's in England !
Re: Rust pocks on hydraulic cylinder shaft!
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2018, 07:46:33 pm »
Wasn't getting any joy locally, so new Bowell cylinder ordered & due for delivery next few days. The flail (hyd' cylinder) will be cosseted at all times henceforth!

Rupert the bear

  • Joined Jun 2015
Re: Rust pocks on hydraulic cylinder shaft!
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2018, 09:22:00 pm »
Wasn't getting any joy locally, so new Bowell cylinder ordered & due for delivery next few days. The flail (hyd' cylinder) will be cosseted at all times henceforth!

Inspect it carefully before you fit it , painful biting a bullet !

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow - some say it's in England !
Re: Rust pocks on hydraulic cylinder shaft!
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2018, 06:02:43 pm »

Inspect it carefully before you fit it , painful biting a bullet !
[/quote]

Thank you kindly for the "cautionary" Rtb:  being a bit desparate to get the flail up and running again, I might well have just stuck it on without much thought. I will, indeed, give it a good inspection b4 fitting.

cloddopper

  • Joined Jun 2013
  • South Wales .Carmarthenshire. SA18
Re: Rust pocks on hydraulic cylinder shaft!
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2018, 12:17:39 am »
When you stop working for more than a daybor so it's good practice to  leave the machinery in such a state that all exposed ram is withdrawn inside the ram cylinder  to prevent it rusting .
Any ram that you can't  get in the cylinder is best lightly coated with a simple petroleum jelly .....  it gets wiped off by the seals as the ram is used once more.

 You should also think about changing the hydraulic oil as well according the tractors servicing manual lest it's got moisture in it  .

 I'd also see what it might cost to get the ram refurbished and see if it is worth doing it & selling it a reconditioned  ram & cylinder or laying it up as a spare, so long as you keep the sealing plugs in place and don't take them out.

 What usually happens is the rusty ram is taken out, the bore is checked for damage  ,  the rusty rod itself is cut off and a new rod welded on , new seals fitted to both the ram piston & the cylinder then it gets pressure tested .
Strong belief , triggers the mind to find the way ... Dyslexia just makes it that bit more amusing & interesting

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow - some say it's in England !
Re: Rust pocks on hydraulic cylinder shaft!
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2018, 12:49:02 am »
New cylinder arrived yesterday in a big square box (!) - my 1st thought, based on the packaging, was "they've sent me the wrong bit of kit".  However, perhaps they don't send out many replacement cylinders (which would be a good thing) and had to improvise on the packaging?
Unfortunately I'm more twitched by drought conditions and setting up irrigation than flailing unwanted greenery right now:  hopefully I will catch up by the weekend and then get the flail back up and working.
@cloddopper - if I can eventually find someone prepared to refurb' the original rod for reasonable £s, I may well have that done for a complete cylinder spare, but, otherwise, I will keep the old cylinder just as it is in extracted position, so as not to ruin seals, for eventual dismantling for spares (excluding the rod of course) given that it has had only one season's use.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 12:50:45 am by arobwk »

cloddopper

  • Joined Jun 2013
  • South Wales .Carmarthenshire. SA18
Re: Rust pocks on hydraulic cylinder shaft!
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2018, 10:15:43 pm »
I'D PUSH THE RAM FULY HOME IN THE CYLINDER THE SEALS WILL GET RENEWED IF IT GETS REFURBISHD IN ANY CASE. THE LITTLE TOP HAT SEALING PLUGS YOU TAKE OUTTHE NEW RAM .  SHOVE THEM INTHEBPORTS FNTHEBOLD RAM TO PREVENT  A LOT OF HYDROSCOPIC INITITED RUSTING INSIDETHE CYLINDER TOO.

 :idea:   HA ha  just realised caps are on .. sorry I'm not shouting ......... it just looks like it .   :roflanim:
Strong belief , triggers the mind to find the way ... Dyslexia just makes it that bit more amusing & interesting

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow - some say it's in England !
Re: Rust pocks on hydraulic cylinder shaft!
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2018, 11:14:46 pm »
@cloddopper - very much appreciate your further thoughts.  However, until I have an affordable refurb' solution, I think best I leave as is assuming that the existing good seals might be salvageable as spares if I break the cylinder down for parts.  However, you will know better than I whether seals can normally be salvaged without damage during removal (?)

cloddopper

  • Joined Jun 2013
  • South Wales .Carmarthenshire. SA18
Re: Rust pocks on hydraulic cylinder shaft!
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2018, 11:34:27 pm »
That's a good question ………… stick up some decent pictures of the ram .
 Especially a reasonable close up of the end of the rod where it attaches to the anchor point etc. and also of the end of the cylinder where the ram comes out.
Strong belief , triggers the mind to find the way ... Dyslexia just makes it that bit more amusing & interesting

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow - some say it's in England !
Re: Rust pocks on hydraulic cylinder shaft!
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2018, 12:06:16 am »
My interest in whether relatively new cylinder seals can be salvaged has been negated.  To get the old cylinder off, it had to be fully retracted:  it was a very hot day, I was feeling a bit irritated and I thought "what the ...."  [You can replace the dots with whatever word you might have chosen].  I was in no mood to file off all the rust pocks, so I just closed it up regardless. 
Since the new cylinder will always be retracted when idle, hopefully it will be a long time before I might regret my "what the ...." decision.
New cylinder checked out OK visually.  I've not tested it yet under pressure as I'm due a hydraulic oil change on tractor and am changing to a different oil brand (which I can get locally a few miles down road with discount) so I reckon no point in charging the cylinder with old oil.
Have read lots about flushing hydraulics systems before changing oils, but I reckon the easiest option is to drain, re-fill to minimum with chosen oil, operate steering/3PL, re-drain, re-fill and then connect new flail cylinder. (Any residual old oil should be very much diluted I'm thinking.)  Hopefully this will be a one-off flush as I shall stick with brand from local supplier henceforth.   
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 12:25:42 am by arobwk »

 

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