[crobertson]

Just looking for advice for one of our ewes in particular. This year is our first year lambing purebred Derbyshire Gritstone's and all seem to be a day or two over their expected lambing date so I presume as a breed they are slightly longer and with the fact they tend to have more singles than twins (although our first was a triplet).

We had 3 ewes due last week, the one with twins was on time, the single was 2 days over and the third still hasn't lambed - based on her raddle she was due Thursday. She has gone Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday and still nothing. Her teats are massive, her udders look full, her vulva has darkened for the past couple of days but still no signs of lambing. In contrast the other 2 due at the same time have lambed, been in mothering up pens for 48 hours and nursery pen for 48 hours and ready to go back out!

We are getting slightly concerned that do we just leave it and nature will decide when its ready? Is it likely to be stillborn and hence in no rushed getting cramped to start off labour? If not dead this single lamb is getting bigger by the day in a first time shearling - we've had to assist quite a few with big lambs this year despite feeding less this year. I need to ring our vets regarding one of our dogs this week and will mention it to them unless the ewe needs to see a vet sooner? Last time I mentioned something similar previously they said it'll come when ready (typically right after that phone call).

Thanks in advance

[Marches Farmer]

We've had first-timers with a single go 7 days over before now.   Older ewes with twins tend to be early in our flock.  One year everything was 6 days late. This year they all started four days early ......

[harmony]

One of our ewes always goes well over her raddle date. Two weeks this year. I wouldn't worry although that is always easy to say isn't it. If she had a dead lamb in her she would generally try to get rid of it. If not, you will have a poorly sheep with a rotten lamb inside her and she sounds fine from what you say.


I guess Gritstones are typical of hill breeds and don't need much hard feed?


As you say you can mention it to the vet when you speak to them.

[Jukes Mum]

We have had the same this year. According to our calender, "Annie" was due on Friday, so I have been watching her all weekend.
I just checked back on last year's calender and had a date in November which said "Annie?" then one a week later which said "Annie!. I suspect that the tup was trying his luck on the first date, which gave her a raddle mark, but she wasn't properly mated until the week after. So she now has a new due date for this Thursday.

[crobertson]

Well she had the lamb this morning which was definitely a big boy but she needed ALOT of help and did we do the right thing?
I checked at 6am this morning and she had discharge / membranes / fluid hanging from her vulva so I thought great she's started but she was still up and walking around. I left her for just over an hour and checked at 7.15, lots of fluid etc but still no signs of lambs, she had been nesting etc and she was definitely contracting although the seemed rather weak. At about 7.45 there was no progress whatsoever and she seemed pretty tired. I had a quick check and the lamb was right in the birth canal but she was very tight and not really dilated, I could probably fit 1 finger at first even though she was still trying to push the lamb out, it just wasn't getting anywhere - I'm aware of ringworm but thought that was further up ?

[landroverroy]

We have had the same this year. According to our calender, "Annie" was due on Friday, so I have been watching her all weekend.
I just checked back on last year's calender and had a date in November which said "Annie?" then one a week later which said "Annie!. I suspect that the tup was trying his luck on the first date, which gave her a raddle mark, but she wasn't properly mated until the week after. So she now has a new due date for this Thursday.

Sometimes I think you can micromanage due dates etc and tend to forget that these are animals and not programmable robots.
My first son was over 2 weeks overdue and OK, which amounts to a ewe being almost a week overdue without cause for alarm. I would agree that they'll lamb when they're ready. Although obviously you still keep a close eye on the likely suspects in case anything appears amiss. 


Anyway, glad everything's turned out OK crobertson.

[harmony]

Well she had the lamb this morning which was definitely a big boy but she needed ALOT of help and did we do the right thing?
I checked at 6am this morning and she had discharge / membranes / fluid hanging from her vulva so I thought great she's started but she was still up and walking around. I left her for just over an hour and checked at 7.15, lots of fluid etc but still no signs of lambs, she had been nesting etc and she was definitely contracting although the seemed rather weak. At about 7.45 there was no progress whatsoever and she seemed pretty tired. I had a quick check and the lamb was right in the birth canal but she was very tight and not really dilated, I could probably fit 1 finger at first even though she was still trying to push the lamb out, it just wasn't getting anywhere - I'm aware of ringworm but thought that was further up ?

 

[SallyintNorth]

Well she had the lamb this morning which was definitely a big boy but she needed ALOT of help and did we do the right thing?
I checked at 6am this morning and she had discharge / membranes / fluid hanging from her vulva so I thought great she's started but she was still up and walking around. I left her for just over an hour and checked at 7.15, lots of fluid etc but still no signs of lambs, she had been nesting etc and she was definitely contracting although the seemed rather weak. At about 7.45 there was no progress whatsoever and she seemed pretty tired. I had a quick check and the lamb was right in the birth canal but she was very tight and not really dilated, I could probably fit 1 finger at first even though she was still trying to push the lamb out, it just wasn't getting anywhere - I'm aware of ringworm but thought that was further up ?

Sounds like you did everything right - gave her time to do it herself, checked when there was no progress, and helped when you found she needed it.

The only thing you might change is not giving hard feed to single-bearers . Give them a molasses and minerals lick so they can get plenty of sugar and any minerals they need, but no cake, unless they are actually thin.

[crobertson]

Thanks for that. When I checked she had been contracting and trying to push the lamb out but she hadn't dilated, I could only fit one finger in despite the lamb being right there ready to come out and the ewe kind of gave up. With plenty of lube and time I just massaged and could gradually fit my arm in to find the lamb had bent its leg and needed pushing back slightly to straighten the leg. Lots of lube and time to gradually ease the lamb out, the lamb was very dry and was a really struggle to even get it to move fractionally.

I presumed the lamb was dead, the head kept flopping to the side, tongue out and purple, even once the head was out it was that dry we had to lube the body. Anyway the lamb was alive, has been up sucking and mum seems fine.

I just feel did I intervene too soon, would she have dilated eventually? Or would this risk the lamb? My gut feeling was trying to push a lamb out that clearly wasn't fitted through a finger width gap! Every time I've ever checked a lambing ewe if mispositioned etc she's always been just been fully dilated.

[SallyintNorth]

If it was all very dry, it sounds like she'd been trying a long time and you did need to help, exactly as you did.

I'd give her some antiobiotics and CombiVit, and pain relief if you have it, as you've been in.

[Marches Farmer]

The right moment to intervene comes with experience and even then it can sometimes prove elusive ....

[SallyintNorth]

The right moment to intervene comes with experience and even then it can sometimes prove elusive ....

Totally 


And whilst we do, often, encourage people to give the ewe a chance to do it on her own and not interfere too soon, and it's good advice, you are unlikely to kill either ewe or lamb if you go in too early, use plenty of lube and common sense, and, most importantly, call the vet if you've been at it for more than 20 minutes with no progress, or 40 minutes with no lamb.  But if you leave it too long, you could have a dead lamb or even a dead ewe.

[member=146945]crobertson[/member] , from your description it is possible that you went in too soon and or too deep, yes.  But the ewe had been at it for some time and was getting weak.  It gets so much harder once the ewe has stopped trying that I think most of us would have had a feel when you did - and without being there, I can't say whether I'd have gone on and delivered the lamb or let her try for longer after feeling what you felt.  Probably given her another 30-40 minutes and had another feel, and if no change, done what you did.  But I wasn't there, you were, and you did what you thought right at the time - and I may well have done exactly the same had I been there.

So don't beat yourself up.    You have a live lamb and a live ewe and that's what it's all about.  I've lambed literally thousands of sheep over 12 years, must have helped deliver upwards of fifty lambs (could be as many as a hundred, didn't keep count), and whilst you learn from every single lambing, you do really want to celebrate the live births and not get too down about the deaths - and certainly not beat yourself up about delivering a live lamb to a live ewe!   

So well done, congratulations  , and good on yer for seeking to learn more from the experience.  Now pat yourself on the back, admire that happy family and all your other happy families, and enjoy the rest of your lambing

[pharnorth]

You got the right result so we'll done

[member=10673]SallyintNorth[/member] what do you think of Calciject in this situation?  I ask because in a situation that sounds quite similar this year (my ewe had been showing discomfort but not ready to push for several hours and not dilating, my Vet advised Calciject to help the dilation while they made their way over. By the time they arrived (an hour later) she had fully dilated and was ready to have 2 lambs (both breach) helped out.

[SallyintNorth]

You got the right result so we'll done

[member=10673]SallyintNorth[/member] what do you think of Calciject in this situation?  I ask because in a situation that sounds quite similar this year (my ewe had been showing discomfort but not ready to push for several hours and not dilating, my Vet advised Calciject to help the dilation while they made their way over. By the time they arrived (an hour later) she had fully dilated and was ready to have 2 lambs (both breach) helped out.

I haven't come across using Calciject in this way.  What do any of our vet members say?

[Womble]

When we had similar problems a few weeks back, a very knowledgeable friend suggested Calciject too.  However, when I asked what it was supposed to do, he shrugged and said "apparently it helps to open things up, but in reality the biggest effect is probably just to make you feel as though you've at least done something!"