Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Golden Guernsey Horns  (Read 5228 times)

lintmill

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • South Lanarkshire
    • The Lint Mill
    • Facebook
Golden Guernsey Horns
« on: January 23, 2018, 07:24:41 pm »
I suspect this may have been a topic overtime but I would like to ask the question as this wil be my first time for kids.
I have 2 GGs that are due to kid this year. 
I would like to know why the disbudding of Guernseys is the preferred option of so many breeders and that of the society,  I have written to them but nothing back yet..

The arguements of horns getting caught in stock fencing and potential of kids damaging the mothers udders seem to me weak arguements given that my horned sheep (Soay & Hebs) have never caused these problems.

My goats have access to all our grazing in the day which is 13 acres.

Is disbudding just asthetic and to make selling stock easier?

I really would like to know from GG owners what they think and why (if they do) choose to remove the horns from a horned breed.
Many Thanks   Colin


lintmill

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • South Lanarkshire
    • The Lint Mill
    • Facebook
Re: Golden Guernsey Horns
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2018, 09:03:15 pm »
Many thanks for such a comprehensive reply,  hopefully I only get considered and "polite replies"....

Colin

Talana

  • Joined Mar 2014
Re: Golden Guernsey Horns
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2018, 10:16:41 am »
It is personal choice you can show horned dairy goats at recognized shows. Personally since my herd is half polled the others are disbudded by vet at around 4 days old. People choose on personal experience some have had to deal with horrific injuries etc. with horned goats whilst others have had bad experience of not very experienced vet either killing the kid during disbudding or bad scurs growing back. Some people have never had any problems either way. I would never personally handle goats by the horns as they hate it and causes distress far better to use halter. I personally prefer no horns as a lot safer as every time I have handled a sheep or goat with horns you always get jabbed with them. I have also seen the damage a horned animal has done to one of its herd mates. Both consequences of horned or disbudding have risks although low even rare. You have to decide which risks you go with.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 03:55:20 pm by Talana »

lintmill

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • South Lanarkshire
    • The Lint Mill
    • Facebook
Re: Golden Guernsey Horns
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2018, 07:34:14 pm »
Thanks Talana,  luckily I have never had any problems with my horned sheep and also the castrated male that we got with our 2 girls (they came as a family group...) has scurs which is a result of (I think) of disbudding gone wrong.

So far we are going to go against the majority and keep ours horned. Maybe I will regret maybe I won't...

Buttermilk

  • Joined Jul 2014
Re: Golden Guernsey Horns
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2018, 08:20:07 pm »
I no longer keep goats but I am firmly in the disbud camp.  As a young person I had to care for a goat that had her horns removed as an adult.  It was either that or pts as she knew how to use them on anything and everything and she had disemboweled a pony.  Once her horns had gone she was bottom of all the pecking orders and the holes were a constant problem.  If ever in the same situation I would always pts.

At the same place we also had two goats that snapped off their horns well down into the quick.  One we managed to save by keeping it bandaged in place for what seemed like years - I was only just a teenager - the other had to be removed fully.  Talk about blood, in both cases there were huge amounts of the stuff.

I worked at a commercial goat farm where we milked up to 4,000 goats a day.  The vet visited twice a week and disbudded all kids.  Yes many did grow scurs but most were easily dealt with using a wire saw periodicaly.

Lesley Silvester

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • Telford
Re: Golden Guernsey Horns
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2018, 11:45:28 pm »
I'm also for disbudding. Yes, I've had the occasional one with scurs but they usually fall off after a while and then regrow. I've also had a goat who butted anyone and everyone human. I dread to think what damage she could have done with horns.

Dogwalker

  • Joined Nov 2011
Re: Golden Guernsey Horns
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2018, 06:40:39 am »
I have GG, gg x saanan, and angora goats.  The two original dairy goats came to me disbudded, one produced polled male kids and one out of female triplets polled,  I kept the polled one, but milked the horned one with no problems before sale.

The horned dairy kids do get their horns stuck in the stock fencing and one even at 18months still hadn't learned not to.  It's usually when about 6months.

I had one angora kid belly skin ripped badly by a x-bred kid and for the first time this year had one of the angora does attacking the others after shearing and ripping skin with the end of her horns.  Maybe her horns have grown forward more this year.  They usually butt each other as each is put back after shearing but never damage before.
I get more bruises shearing the angoras than any injury from dairy goat horns.

lintmill

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • South Lanarkshire
    • The Lint Mill
    • Facebook
Re: Golden Guernsey Horns
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2018, 05:52:49 pm »
I no longer keep goats but I am firmly in the disbud camp.  As a young person I had to care for a goat that had her horns removed as an adult.  It was either that or pts as she knew how to use them on anything and everything and she had disemboweled a pony.  Once her horns had gone she was bottom of all the pecking orders and the holes were a constant problem.  If ever in the same situation I would always pts.

If my kids keep their horns then I will not have a change of mind and put them thru disbudding as adults.


At the same place we also had two goats that snapped off their horns well down into the quick.  One we managed to save by keeping it bandaged in place for what seemed like years - I was only just a teenager - the other had to be removed fully.  Talk about blood, in both cases there were huge amounts of the stuff.

I have had young Hebs do this, whilst there is a lot of blood it does stop..and  there was no problem with the horns growing back. It always looks worse than it actually is.

Thank you however for reply,  if I had 4000 goats as the farm you worked on then I would obviously feel different than I do with a non-commercial smallholding.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 08:07:07 am by lintmill »

cuckoo

  • Joined Jan 2011
Re: Golden Guernsey Horns
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2018, 09:23:35 pm »
Hi,

We have boer goats and we keep all of the horned.  We have also previously bred angora, bagots and golden guernseys.  Angoras, boers and bagots are left horned with little issue.

GG does we disbudded and bucks we have one disbudded but he was at a disadvantage as he had to be kept separate due to his scurs getting damaged and bleeding if with males. We bought in a male who was specifically ordered to be horned not disbudded. Never had any issues with his horns.

The reason we disbudded the GG does is that never had any problems with scurs and yes easier to sell that way.

Horned goats can get their heads stuck in stock fencing which is a PIA. Otherwise horns are good handles.  Advantage of boer and angoras is horns grow curved and round - less damage capability. Bagots not handled much so horns not an issue.

Alex_

  • Joined Jul 2016
Re: Golden Guernsey Horns
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2018, 12:56:43 pm »
I have seen people put tennis balls on goats horns.  Would that not help with keeping everyone protected?

mart6

  • Joined Sep 2014
  • Notts / Yorkshire border
Re: Golden Guernsey Horns
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2018, 03:08:30 pm »
Does aggression vary between different breeds ?
We have Boers horned and disbudded together no real problems only the odd kid in stock fencing but i tape a stick or plastic pipe acrooss horns of any young kid that persistantly gets stuck until its to big.

Keep mine horned even young bucks brought up together never have any real issues
Only the Alfa male at breedig time then its a different story

Big Mat

  • Joined May 2016
  • King's Lynn, Norfolk
Re: Golden Guernsey Horns
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2018, 03:57:25 pm »
I no longer keep goats but I am firmly in the disbud camp.  As a young person I had to care for a goat that had her horns removed as an adult. It was either that or pts as she knew how to use them on anything and everything and she had disemboweled a pony. Once her horns had gone she was bottom of all the pecking orders and the holes were a constant problem.  If ever in the same situation I would always pts.

At the same place we also had two goats that snapped off their horns well down into the quick.  One we managed to save by keeping it bandaged in place for what seemed like years - I was only just a teenager - the other had to be removed fully.  Talk about blood, in both cases there were huge amounts of the stuff.

I worked at a commercial goat farm where we milked up to 4,000 goats a day.  The vet visited twice a week and disbudded all kids.  Yes many did grow scurs but most were easily dealt with using a wire saw periodicaly.

Without wishing to sound a little abrupt, why did you not just have it put to sleep as it sounds like it was a dangerous animal?

We have a zero tolerance police on any dangerous livestock, no matter how precious or expensive they are.

For me personally, I won't disbud any of our goats, I don't agree with doing it on our meat breeds.

Buttermilk

  • Joined Jul 2014
Re: Golden Guernsey Horns
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2018, 07:16:40 pm »
I no longer keep goats but I am firmly in the disbud camp.  As a young person I had to care for a goat that had her horns removed as an adult. It was either that or pts as she knew how to use them on anything and everything and she had disemboweled a pony. Once her horns had gone she was bottom of all the pecking orders and the holes were a constant problem.  If ever in the same situation I would always pts.

At the same place we also had two goats that snapped off their horns well down into the quick.  One we managed to save by keeping it bandaged in place for what seemed like years - I was only just a teenager - the other had to be removed fully.  Talk about blood, in both cases there were huge amounts of the stuff.

I worked at a commercial goat farm where we milked up to 4,000 goats a day.  The vet visited twice a week and disbudded all kids.  Yes many did grow scurs but most were easily dealt with using a wire saw periodicaly.

Without wishing to sound a little abrupt, why did you not just have it put to sleep as it sounds like it was a dangerous animal?

We have a zero tolerance police on any dangerous livestock, no matter how precious or expensive they are.

For me personally, I won't disbud any of our goats, I don't agree with doing it on our meat breeds.

It was not my goat I just went to the smallholding where it lived to look after the animals.  They had several animals of different sorts I would have had pts.

 

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Ark Farm Livestock Movement Service

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2024. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS