[sabrina]

One well know Shetland breeder has recommended that studs should take a good looked at their colt foals and decide what is good enough to geld or leave entire rather than sending loads of poor colts to the sale ring. In some way i agree that it would be better for the foal in the long run to be put down when weaned rather than go from sale to sale and then end up as meat. But, would it not be better all round that these poor foals were not born in the first place. Why breed at all if you do not have a plan for the animal's future. They are over the moon when the foal is a filly but it still needs time to grow and mature before either being bred from or broken. Gelding is not cheap and this puts breeders of from running on their ponies or you get told we do not have room for colts, do not breed then. I know some studs have over a 100 foals a season, why !! I stopped going to the pony sales as it was far too upsetting. I keep telling my boys how lucky they are that I have them and will continue to buy colt foals when I have sold on the older ponies who are either broken to ride or drive. Not so much the caring British breeder but those just out there to make money anyway they can.

[doganjo]

Hear, Hear! Well said Sabrina!  I feel the same about dogs and in particular these designer ones!

[shetlandpaul]

to make money i don't think so. a shetland colt on average are selling for 20-30 pounds. with chipping and registering them. the pony breeders are not making money. yes its wrong to breed an animalif you are not going to care for them. but they are cared for if not sold. the odd person who does not care for them up here is jumped on by the community. gelding up here costs about £150 so even if a breeder was to geld them the would still not make money. we rescued two from a dealer and we have now ended up with four boys. we will not sell to dealers but thats just us the big breeders can not bring home a dozen or more colts. if you love the shetland pony don't buy from a dealer. lots of studs are down sizing so the supply will dry up. it is a pity that they can't be used as food that would insure that they have a value.

[sabrina]

I know in shetland that colt foals sell for almost nothing, I got two from friends and will do the same again to help the Island ponies but when I enquired about buying one from a well know breeder in England the price was £500 add on transport cost to the north east of scotland and it was more than I could afford. Needless to say that colt went to Reading Sale and did not make the asking price but was later sold outside the ring for a lot less. I would have given him more. It is also well know that some breeders supply the zoo, now they must get money for that. Its not just Shetlands, a person near me has bred 3 foals from a mare who went lame and has no idea what there future will be as long as she gets her money she will be happy. As for the foals, they have lived out on very poor grazing all year round, no coats in the winter and at some stage in the next few years someone will end up with an animal that may have joint problems. None of them have made anything like the height they should have done, mare is over 16 hands. She was put on little grass after foaling because they thought she was fat and kept there. I did try to explain that she needed good grazing for both herself and foal but it went on deaf ears. 

[sabrina]

Forgot to say I spent over £450 gelding my two colts.

[cairnhill]

one of the latest BHS campaigns is "Think Before You Breed".  If only people would take notice!

[shetlandpaul]

then rhere is the craze for either very small minitures or very large fullups. this takes away from the normal sized pony. we have the oposite problem our grass is too rich. the boys are on the roughest hill the girls are on the richer ground. people need to learn that these animals are not just companion ponies. they are very hard working. they will even plough if you can get the right equipment. please don't spend 500 on a shetland colt unless its very special. also make syre you are dealing with the breeder or owner. one dealer even tryed to buy a pony for a £5 a couple of years ago. you best chance to get a good pony is to talk to the breeder. lots up here will sort out the transport for you as well.

[sabrina]

I would never buy from a dealer shetlandpaul, the colt in question was from one of my mares I sold when I gave up breeding due to my illness. parting with my mares was heartbreaking and when I saw that this mare had given birth to a colt I thought at least I could buy back one of her offspring. Maybe that was the reason he asked so much for him. I did managed to find out who bought him and lucky for me the his new family now keep in touch and send me pictures and show results. Its an insult to offer anything less than what it cost to produce any animal and most breeders will put the welfare of their stock first. Costs of feed and hay, vet bill plus passport and chip should all be in the price. I do understand that on the Islands it is harder when you have to pay up to £60 for a round bale of hay ( friend paid this in March ) but I do think culling colts would be kinder but very hard than them going from sale to sale. After all they are just babies and the experience must be terrible for them. My friends in Shetland know me well enough that if I can re home I will and that any foal that comes to me gets the best of everything. It shows in the show ring and how they behave.   

[Hellybee]

It happen across the board Sabrina, i wont go to sales any longer, that have a commercial aspect to them as i find it far too upsetting. I agree whole heartedly with what you are saying, these little mites dont ask to be here, unfortunately, it has been a long practised generational "cash crop" with some breeders, who pick out for or two special ones and send the rest to theyre fate... some go for  fiver, some get nice homes.  What this does tho is pull the price of foals down across the board as the market is flooded/ 

The mountain pony derogation scheme, even though i dont agree with derogtion, has now it own sales to deal with hill stock, which is carried out near to the mountains where the foals originate from, where they go from there is still in the hand of the bidders......

The derogation allows hill pony owners to run the mountains but be free of passporting and chipping.  This doesnt lie well with lowland breeders tho as alot of the lines that are running the hills also run on the lowlands.  But they have derogation to lessen the burden on the hill pony owner and allowing them to run more stock on, as there are still low numbers on the many welsh mountain ranges.  These ponies are classed as a rare breed - hence the derogation status 

[Pony-n-trap]

I got my colt foal Isaac at 6 months old, he had lived on a hill with his mum until then, was quite poor and FULL of worms, I had never seen such a burden being dropped once I started worming him.  He is a traditional Black and White Cob and a good stamp of one too, I had him DNA tested to see if he was Homozygous, he is Heterozygous so I had an easier decision in getting him gelded.

Considering his poor start in life he is now the picture of health, very happy, VERY cheeky and growing nicely, he's 3 now.

If I was to ever breed from my mare, I wouldnt be too bothered what sex it was as it would be kept and brought on for a riding horse, probably for my partner, I wouldnt breed indescriminately and definitely wouldnt disregard a colt just because he was a colt.

I also wouldnt send any of my horses to the ring, I would want to know where they were going and hopefully keep intouch with the new owner, saying that, I wouldnt sell any of mine, a horse is for life, not just for the summer!

[Hermit]

The shetland pony from a good bloodline in shetland  ie top breeders that go back generations still get up to a thousand guinneas for their horses but are mainly private sales to America or Norway. A Shetland stud a few years ago spent 14 thousand on a stallion from Norway to here. A friend of mine who kept her young ponies on my land a while back got two thousand guinneas for each of them. Money is still there but you need the pedigree to back generations. Some saw this as easy money but these breeders have worldwide contacts and the worldwide studs only deal with each other. The money studs are a very close nit circle and dont say much about their dealings. There are some studs that just breed volume and take to the pony sales but the real breeders dont touch their stock as it is unreliable, these ponies are bought by dealers from south for peanuts to sell on as meat to safari parks or just to make a few bucks on.A dealer from Doncaster is one of the main pony sales buyers. People do sometimes eat pony up here, there was a pony on a spit at a party at mine when the last owners had it and when you are stranded on a far off island with no hay or shop boats for weeks my agri merchant said, after I enquired how they feed their ponies when they run out of hay, dont worry if no food gets to them there wont be any ponies left to feed.
  If you can afford to buy a pony from a good dealer up here at a pony sales you are buying their poor stock.Good stock has a buyer in mind from birth and 'normal' folk dont get a whiff of it 

[shetlandpaul]

theres nothing wrong with horse meat in fact its healthy. when i mentioned eating the daughters ponies she was rather forcefull. you would need a very strong frame to roast one of ours at the moment all rather tubby. but to get a very good stud you are looking at investing lots and waiting at least 4 years for a return. the ponies and sheep do produce a very nice turf. untill you take them off and the buttercups flower. it does look like its going to be a very poor year at the sales. if anyone wants a very friendly pony a shetland is worth a thought. i better not go to the sales again i will try and out bid the dealers and end up with more of them. rachel the mad pony lover would be happy.

[Hellybee]

My miniature is out of an Island bred mare, Paul do you know anything of the Redburn ponies?

[shetlandpaul]

sorry no. but its the daughter who is the pony maniac. i checked the shetland breeders web site and they are not on there. but they have some on the web. one shares the same family as a gelding of ours.

[Hermit]

Going to a top breeder this evening I will ask her.