[SmallWelshBarn]

I used to live in France loved it just did not like running a buissness in France far too many punitive rules.
Aside from the land grab by the woodland trust it also seems the mast is built in the wrong location I.e about 6.3m meteres further back from the agreed registered OS deeds. Given the mast should be 20mx13.5m which I think equates to 270sqm of over all area they are occupying about 89sqm of land that does not belong too them oops. That could prove to be an expensive mistake. (Radio tower built in 1980)

[Backinwellies]

I don't know how much land you are smallholding SWB or what percentage this disputed area is  ....  but remember falling out with neighbours (whoever they are) can create real future problems,  and neighbour disputes now have to be declared when selling a property ....  weigh up the pros and cons of following this through.

[SmallWelshBarn]

The more I think about it I am not the only one who have had land stolen by the woodland trust. Given the radio tower is build six meters further back on to my land which is going to be resolved. The tower actually should own 6m of land in front of its actual position as thats whats shown on their deeds. So the woodland trust apart from me have also taken over 90sqm of the radio tower land. Does that make sense ?
Frankly I don't give a toss about the woodland trust they are not actual a person or a neighbour they are a corporate entity.

[Backinwellies]

Frankly I don't give a toss about the woodland trust they are not actual a person or a neighbour they are a corporate entity.

Woodland trust is a non profit making charity.

[pgkevet]

Either I missed it or you didn't mention how long ago this boundary change occured. I belive the time limit is 12years for getting away with stuff like this and then it's over.

Recently we got a letter informing us that my deceased father-in-law had inherited land in ireland but the sitting squatters had now gained absolute title to it - land and property we knew nothing about but would have been ours was simply lost. And unbelieably my Mother lost a small farm and large house in the Czech Republic to which she was entitled because she was aged and forgetful about making a claim to it whereas an undeserving cousin had done so, kept quiet about matters until enough time had gone by to allow her to sell it. Again it was only after the sale that authorities bothered saying it had gone!

I lost 2 farms.

[harmony]

Did you not check boundaries before you bought the land?


Have you met the Woodland Trust on site? Personally, that is what I would do, with my land agent and presumably theirs.

[SmallWelshBarn]

I have met with them. Their response is well it’s shown on our map so it’s ours and we have used it since they brought the woodland.
They won’t share with me the purchase documents and they are not held on land registers.
My deeds shows it’s my land and also the towers deeds show some of the land belongs to them.

[pgkevet]

I can't remember the transition date but somewhere in the 90's all new transactions went online at Land Reg. That implies that woodland trust bought and remarked those boundaries over 12yrs ago. In which case as per my previous message you have lost it?
The problem with deeds is that they weren't always updated if parts of parcels were changed -often someone too mean to pay for it.

I've also just been through similar with lost deeds when my Mum died (lost by the solicitor she lodged them with for safe keeping!!). I had to go through 6 mths of hoops to sort that and when it finally came to the Land Reg bit they did at least make some deep checks. Fortunately i had documents from when my dad bought the land and designed and built his house. No actual land sale doc but supporting discussion docs with building societies and solicitors as well as all the bills for bricks and windows from 1961. Even then it was a bit touch and go as to whether i'd be granted absolute title as opposed to possessory title. And when Land reg finally granted that they still managed to get my home address completely wrong on their system and we've been waiting several weeks for that correction to be sorted....

[Ghdp]

Either I missed it or you didn't mention how long ago this boundary change occured. I belive the time limit is 12years for getting away with stuff like this and then it's over.

Recently we got a letter informing us that my deceased father-in-law had inherited land in ireland but the sitting squatters had now gained absolute title to it - land and property we knew nothing about but would have been ours was simply lost. And unbelieably my Mother lost a small farm and large house in the Czech Republic to which she was entitled because she was aged and forgetful about making a claim to it whereas an undeserving cousin had done so, kept quiet about matters until enough time had gone by to allow her to sell it. Again it was only after the sale that authorities bothered saying it had gone!

I lost 2 farms.

[Ghdp]

Sorry clumsy cut and paste. I think you do need to check the time table for all this before you start falling out with neighbours - and tbh the fall out is really stress to avoid.
Perhaps ypu could arrange a fixed fee consulation with some solicitors. You have all the facts to hand and should be able to get clear advice quickly.

[SmallWelshBarn]

Adverse position can only take place if the trust believed that the land did not belong to them thus adversely possessing it also they would have had to have had exclusive use of the land I have a right of way over their land to get to mine as an alternate access secondly they would have had to have had exclusive use of the land they are claiming they have not. The 12 year rule does not apply in this case.
http://www.maitlandchambers.com/information/recent-cases/horace-parshall-v-clara-hackney-2013

In a nut shell If disputed land was inadvertently registered under two different titles belonging to two different owners, the owner in occupation of it could not claim adverse possession since his occupation was not unlawful.

[mart6]

Sounds like you know what you are doing
In my experience keep using land and possession then onus is on them to institute action
Where land ownership was in dispute in cases like this i thought the earlier title deed had  advantage
pending

In my case they sent land registry deeds , surveyor report  you name it.
Then one bank holiday they tried a land grab but i was waiting
Instructed the machine operative if they touched my fence police would be called and would press charges
for criminal damage.
Supermarket called police they said civil mater until they damage fence ...lol

Final correspondence was if they or contractors touched anything  they would be in court
They replied clients were not happy at me making threats never heard another thing

[SmallWelshBarn]

It’s a civil matter as you say. So my next move is to fence in the land I claim is mine.
If they try to remove the fence I shall call the police as that is criminal damage.
The fact that the mast people also have been stiched up helps my case :-)
They have deep pockets to get it sorted.
I spent some of the morning in with the forestry commission survayer as
It’s them that the Woodland trust purchased the forest from.
The chap seems to think I am correct as they will have worked from the OS maps so I am 100% sure I will be able to tell the woodland trust to shove it.
I used to give them money never again and now I’ll actively discourage people. 

[cloddopper]

I feel like banging my head against a wall. I have a section of my fence line that does not match with the past OS maps. A corner of my land is now showing as being owned and registered to the woodland trust. However my deeds show different and documents registered in the 1980s show the missing land is part of my parcel. Its never been sold.
The original purchase transaction documents from the forestry commission to the woodland trust are not held at the land registry only a submitted map any one can submit a bloody map !!!!!

 

The woodland trust refuse to show me the purchase transaction maps etc they say they bought the land I say well prove it to me then. You can buy land that does not belong to the seller.
I am sick of them trying to push me about. There is no such thing as land theft. So I will be fencing in the stolen land. They then can spend money on taking me to court as I have all the correct documentation. They won't be able to remove my fence as that would be classed as criminal damage !!!
The woodland trust should be honest instead of being dishonest.
Fuming.

Get some white post card sized plastic notices made to tie one every 5 mtrs to your fence with black cable ties through holes in the notices ,  words showing outwards  off your property
Get the lettering  done in post office red ( Check the internet / eBay for them ? )

 Use wording such as

  PRIVATE PROPERTY 
       KEEP OUT   
 your name
a secondary email address set up specifically for the purpose


Don't put your phone number or home address lest some dick'eds ring you at all hours ro see if you're in to break in if there is no answer etc etc ..

 Do send the WLT a recorded letter disputing their version of events teling hem why  & keep a recorded copy as indicated below .

 You might look to the land registry by way of an appointment personal visit  to see if you can view any earlier sale documentation for there might be a codicil that lets them have the land or not prior to your purchase . If so it's worth getting copies for either way .

Some of these old solicitors offices that handled sales have been taken over so many time . legal specialist  companies buy up old deed title documents to see if they can snatch land from the rightful owners & claim a commission from the big owner for doing it.
The WLT will also have their own land department doing exactly the same where they ride rough shod over most folk with adjacent land ..or try to .

Good luck .. stay calm & carry on .
Dave 

 One last very very important thing .... Do not ever rely on O/S maps to show boundaries  only go by title deeds you physically hold or those that you have official stamped up land registry  copies for  .

 One guy I know paid a lot of money , going around disputing a boundary only to learn in Civil court he was wrong .
He'd been using a 1921 O/S TF series map for his boundary .When he should have been using his 2005 deed of ownership & sale documentation . The area involved was about three acres & would have given him sole full access to the rear of his small holding on to a metalled road .
The rightful owner got costs and damages for slander to his reputation so be really sure  what you say and do is correct .


 Final thing
 Once your single strand fence wire is in place with the notices ,  hang a current newspaper on the fence , so the front is clearly visible & traceable , then photograph it , if you can with some of your buildings in the distant back ground .

Make three copied of the photo , sent one  to WLT fully identified  with your case number & personal details etc etc and post two separate copies of every thing to yourself by signed for recorded mail .
 
Don't open your copies , just write on the unopened letters the date & what's inside the envelope once you get it as judges love precise detailed proofs of ownership or time line actions taken to help the case . Keep the posting receipts for everything too taping  them well to the right envelope .

[cloddopper]

That was a good result Mart6 .

 Whatever you do keep the letters even if it means using & paying for a banks deed box system .