[doganjo]

I'll take a look at your website, but basically I need to know how much it would cost me to feed approximately 110kgs of dog (5 dogs - 17, 16, 20, 20, 33 kgs) with raw food.  Theya re all healthy, shining coats etc at the moment on Breeder Pack (22% protein, £10 a 15kg bag every 8 days) and some tinned food on mixed, with the usual daily treats.  All in, that costs me around £70 a month for five dogs.  I like the idea of raw food for them but would it not work out a lot more expensive?
I have no idea how much of any item they would need, and as I show them as well as work a couple of them I can't let them get out of condition.

[AlanC]

it All depends on what you can get a hold of i get a bag of cheeks and other off cuts from my local abattoir and its 20kg approx for a tenner then they give me the bones and few other bits for nothing and two bags dose my 4 about a month


just a point...some people take feeding raw very seriously and have exact amounts of this meat then that on particular days. but from my experience an ad lib approx works better for me as as i cant guarantee that i will have a specific type of meat at any one time 


hope this helps
alan

[milly molly]

we tried this with our four, add lib really, unfortunately as they are house dogs the side effects of the increased protein diet proved very offputting........very smelly wind in increased quantities , much prefer the kibble diet with bone/meat treats.

mandy

[warmglo]

I have four adult collies, 15 - 20 kgseach, Their meat/rice/veg diet averages at around £65pm. I get the meat from Landywoods, the veg from Iceland (£1 a pack x 4), and the brown rice from a wholesale market shop. But first off I just wanted to try it out, so I did an experiment and bought a weeks worth of minced beef/ chicken pieces from Iceland. And I made sure that I only gave them bones on weekdays so I wouldn't have to pay out of hours at the vets!   I found that one week wasn't enough to make a decision, so kept going like that till I made up my mind. An expensive experiment, and not a very balanced diet for a while, but it was a big help.

[AlanC]

we tried this with our four, add lib really, unfortunately as they are house dogs the side effects of the increased protein diet proved very offputting........very smelly wind in increased quantities , much prefer the kibble diet with bone/meat treats.

mandy

what i meant by ad lib was that one day might be offal then the next cheeks and then two days on bones or what ever they always got the same quantities but the types of meat was just what ever i had at the time

[knightquest]

I reckon that it would cost just shy of £80 for the meat for your 5 dogs for four weeks. That is if you use meat alone. You must add bones to the diet but butchers have to pay to have chicken carcasses taken away so I am sure that if you have a butcher who is close then they would certainly do a deal with the other bones that you can add if you take the carcasses off them. A knuckle or a marrow bone once a week is great.

I have taken the average price of a block of meat as 40p. The dogs weighing 16/17 kgs need about 450g/day. 20kg is 600g/day and 33kg is 800g/day. This is the total quantity of food per day. That is the total including meat and bones.
The price of £80 is worked out using the meat only to make up the desired weight whereas, the bones need to come off that total - if that makes sense?

The ratio of meat to bones is 75% meat to 25% bones. These figures are NOT set in stone. Feeding ad lib is no problem as sometimes you forget to bring the food home from the shop (oh wait a moment, that's just me DOH!).

I would also say that if the dogs are windy that too much may have been fed. It's worth just double checking.

I also don't feed much in the way of veg. Sometimes we give a lamb and veg mix and the dogs get leftovers from our meals but nothing rigid in the way of veg. We also don't feed any carbs to our dogs unless they are table scraps.
Just don't think that they need carbs.

Hope that all helps and that I haven't waffled too much.

Feel free to ask any other questions.

Ian

[doganjo]

I think that's it out for me then.  I can't afford to pay any more than I'm doing now.  Thanks anyway.

[knightquest]

I think that's it out for me then.  I can't afford to pay any more than I'm doing now.  Thanks anyway.

No problem Annie. If you ever come into some money, switch 'em then 

If you have any dogs with 'hyper type' issues it may be worth getting them on a raw diet as Breederpack to dogs is like fast food to us. Especially when tinned food is added. Let me know if you need any more info.

Ian

[doganjo]

Breederpack is only 22% protein, it's Beta in disguise  and I only add bareley a mouthful with a little warm water just to taste it up a bit, my dogs are hyper anyway - Brittanys all are! But they are no worse than any of my friends' dogs.
Doubt if I'll come into money at my age and the pension has to feed me too!

[AlanC]

when i was feeding dry food i found i had to buy different  for each season

when they were working out out at least 3-4 night a week lamping and also out In the day i had them on a 24% protein dry food

but during the summer when there not working i had to cut them right down to a 18% brand as they put allot of weight on and had far to much energy for me to deal with without running them
i know what you mean about spaniels being generally hyper but i couldn't handle a load of don't that are not  regularly worked on a high protein diet id end up bald   

you must have the Passions of a saint

[doganjo]

i know what you mean about spaniels being generally hyper

If you mean Brittanys they AREN'T spaniels!!!  They are Hunter Pointer Retrievers, and 2 of mine are worked in season (my boys), but obviously that is only part of their lives.  They get road walked most days and three or four times a week they have free running (although it's not really free since they are recalled, sat, stayed, sent out to retrieve, recalled etc etc as if on a shoot) Now I've found a safe place for them they get longer and all together instead of 2 at a time.  If there are any other cars where I go, I wait till they go away before taking mine out so they don't have any distractions.  So some people would say they are hyper but only in comparison to labs and cockers maybe, I prefer to call it character, stamina, enthusiasm, speed, and great courage.

[knightquest]

Breederpack is only 22% protein, it's Beta in disguise 

Sorry to disagree Annie but Breederpack is not Beta in disguise. Breederpack is a food made from the ingredients that no one else wants. The protein source in Breederpack comes from wheat and its derivatives. The better quality food uses meat as the protein source. Meat is obviously more expensive than wheat so therefore the price for quality food is more.

Except for Bakers which is PANTS anyway!

The ingredients analysis on Breederpack accounts for about 8% of the total mixture (from memory) and the word derivatives occurs at least twice. No one knows exactly what derivatives are but they are not the prime cut, that's for sure!
The analysis on Beta shows derivatives but also includes 14% meat (again from memory). Quality food uses meat meal which is human grade food. Bakers, Breederpack, Dr Johns do not. In fact anything with different coloured nuggets in is loaded with additives etc.............again, I could go on.........

As I have stated on other threads, I am passionate about dog nutrition and the crap that some manufacturers reel out and it is a mission for me to get people to read and understand the ingredients list and not bother too much about protein levels. At the end of the day, if you want to feed 4% less protein, feed 4% less food.

Simples!

Gotta go and lie down in a darkened room now.

Ian

[doganjo]

Ok, Ian.  I need a dog food that costs about £12 to £15 for 15 kgs - I can't afford any more than that.  Can you suggest one.  Maybe Breeder pack doesn't have good stuff in it but my dogs all have glossy coats, wet noses and run like stink, so where am I going wrong?  I alternate that with Dr Johns Gold or Silver, are they any better?

[knightquest]

Annie, if I were in your position, I would stick to what you are doing. Your dogs are obviously able to cope with what they are having as the coat is a great indication as to the dogs condition. It's the poorly dogs out there who suffer.

If you get a specific problem then upgrade the food to suit. There is no point in overstreching yourself. I would just like to get people to read the ingredients and take notice of what goes into dog food - and cat food by the way.

For what it's worth, Dr Johns is made from left over bread. Food suppliers who make their own brand of food which is gluten free and contains meat meal and NOT derivatives is the best to go for but there may not be any places like that around you.

I hope that I haven't upset you with my rants Annie. I've read my posts and I do go on a bit. But I do love dogs. I hope this all helps.

Ian

[doganjo]

Annie, if I were in your position, I would stick to what you are doing. Your dogs are obviously able to cope with what they are having as the coat is a great indication as to the dogs condition. It's the poorly dogs out there who suffer.

If you get a specific problem then upgrade the food to suit. There is no point in overstreching yourself. I would just like to get people to read the ingredients and take notice of what goes into dog food - and cat food by the way.

For what it's worth, Dr Johns is made from left over bread. Food suppliers who make their own brand of food which is gluten free and contains meat meal and NOT derivatives is the best to go for but there may not be any places like that around you.

I hope that I haven't upset you with my rants Annie. I've read my posts and I do go on a bit. But I do love dogs. I hope this all helps.

Ian

If you'd read some of my posts, Ian, you'd see that I rant as often as you.  You haven't upset me a tall, I'm grateful for your knowledge.  I breed occasionally, I show, I judge, I work two of my dogs (the boys), but most of all they are my pets - so I love dogs too!  I didn't know about Breederpack, nor about Dr Johns.  Is there any other decent product on the market that isn't £35 a bag?