[jacob and Georgina]

i do not have any sheep yet but hopefully will do in the near future  . My grandad was a sheep farmer so i pick his brains on most topics associated with sheep but there was one question i have never thought to ask, so here goes. How much of a problem can inbreeding be? i have heard people say that they try to avoid it but does it still happen, and can it be a problem?? A situation where i think this could possibly happen is say if i had 2 ewes and i put them to the ram (either mine or a borrowed one) if one ewe had a ewe and one had a ram and i wanted to breed them the following year, if i put the ram in with the 2 older ewes and the younger ewe is there a chance it will breed with its mother?? is this wrong?? should i take the mum out for this period?

i have tried to make it as simple as possible  this may well turn out to be a stupid question but thought this was the best place to find out!!
any replies will be gratefully appreciated

[hexhammeasure]

this is the sort of question that brings the 'it has always been that you don't do it' but no one remebers have a recessive gene fault then breeding two close genetic lines will bring this out. there is also the tale of inbreeding leading to weak, unthrifty or even deformed lambs.

in my opinion if you wish to keep lambs for breeding and if you can avoid it don't take the risk

[Fleecewife]

I think you are worrying about problems before they happen    The usual way is not to use homebred males on your ewes until you have a sufficiently large number of breeding sheep that you can run separate 'lines'.  Then you can have a number of separate breeding groups, using homebred males on unrelated females.  This is what we do, and at the same time we buy in a fresh tup every couple of years to keep the bloodlines fresh.
As you haven't set up your holding yet, you can plan ahead to avoid a situation where a ewe is still running with her own son at breeding time, by having separate paddocks - separate the males from their dams and sisters at 4 months - after this age there is a danger, increasing as they get older, that the tup lamb will mate with his dam or twin. Reminds me of the old lady with two cats, male and female from the same litter.  When the queen cat produced kittens she asked the vet how that could be. The obvious culprit was sitting right there looking proud of his offspring.  The old lady said "oh but he wouldn't - she's his sister  ". Sheep, and cats, don't seem to have a concept of consanguinity.  In Suffolks, using very few tups and AI in the 50s (I think) a huge problem with inherited disease arose which they are still trying to eradicate, so yes, inbreeding can lead to problems.  On the other hand, there is a system called line breeding where matings with close relatives are arranged in order to 'fix' a specific trait in that line, such as fine fleece or extra size.
When you choose your first ewes, check their pedigrees and go for unrelated bloodlines which will give you a broad genetic base to start with.  If you have only two ewes and each has twins, one of each sex, you could then run (breed) a tup lamb from one ewe with the other ewe (in separate paddocks), and vice versa but you could only do this for one year. We don't breed from one yearold ewe lambs but if you did that would be a problem, so best to plan on bringing in, buying or borrowing, a fresh tup each year. As I've suggested elsewhere, this can be a tup lamb which you then send off for the freezer after he has done his work 

[lazybee]

Have a look here. http://www.sheep101.info/201/breedingsystems.html

[dixie]

I have used the same ram for 2 years, this year will change the ram as there are 2 of the daughters from 2 years ago to be tupped, I wouldnt use the same one again, if I were you.

[Shnoowie]

We're just starting to breed a certain line out of our sheep. We're putting our home bred ram a bought ewe with no similar lines; the rest of them will be put to a bought in ram which we are getting from Derby...quite a long way from Devon!
I find it easier to write out 4 or 5 generation pedigrees for each animals I want to breed, and then make a point of not breed animals if they have any similar ancestors in the first 3 or 4 generations.  It makes things difficult with uncommon breeds, but does mean you are less likely to get something that is inbred.

[jacob and Georgina]

thanks for all replies and a very useful link. i would like to start small with two ewes and a borrowed ram and hopefully get at least 1 ewe and 1 ram lamb and then breed them the following year, it is just what to do after that stage that i will heve to think about nearer the time, possbly buying in another ram. One problem i may have is that i would like to keep a rare breed preferabley balwen so would have to see how easy it was to get hold of them. I know that there are at least three breeders in the south west where i am, so hopefully should not be a problem!!

A further question is  what would be the oldest you could eat your sheep? does this really matter?? 

[Fleecewife]

lamb in first year, hogget from 1 to 2 or even 3, mutton when older.  BUT don't think mutton is rubbish - sheep meat gets tastier with age and, depending on breed, is not tough.  Mutton has a bad reputation from scrawny end-of-reproductive-life ewes being sold as mutton.  True mutton is from wethers which are certainly delicious up to seven years old, which is as old as I have eaten them.  Here ancient ewes, up to 14 or 15, go for sausages but would be perfectly acceptable for slow cooking or curries.
Hogget is the age of choice for primitives (such as Shetlands, Hebridean, and for Soays at the upper limit as they grow more slowly) because they do not fatten in their first year.
I do not like tup meat ie from entire males, when they are killed over 18 months or during the rutting season, as I can taste the oily tuppiness, but many people, especially men, cannot taste it.
So, yes it matters but only in that you should choose what age you slaughter your sheep according to the age of meat you prefer and which is most suited to the breed you rear.

[VSS]

The older the animal is the longer and slower you have to cook it and the longer it should be hung before cutting up. BUT the flavour improves with age